"Dragon Skin" vests - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

shadow6274 · 03-11-2008, 07:33 AM

Just curious if any LEO wears the dragon skin vest from Pinncale and what are your thoughts and comments about this vest. Thanks in advance for your feedback.

Lurch · 03-11-2008, 02:25 PM

I don't know of any that wear them, and I've heard lotsa horror stories about them. The Army gave them a fail, and and DOJ doesn't approve of them either from what i hear

Army Refutes Dragon Skin Claims

Ishpeck · 03-11-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurch

Army Refutes Dragon Skin Claims

Damn that reality! It always ruins marketing campaigns.

ArmyGuy45 · 03-11-2008, 03:06 PM

but i thought there was no such thing as "negative" publicity

mcb · 03-11-2008, 06:25 PM

Pinnacle Armor the maker of Dragon Skin is not getting a fair shake by the Army. The Army gave Pinnacle Armor millions of your tax dollars through the SBIR (Small Business Innovative Research) program to develop the Dragon Skin body armor. Then when it comes time to test the armor by a third party testing group some how a person from Point Blank (Pinnacle's competition and the company with the contract to supply armor to our troops) gets hired as a consultant for the test. WTF!!!

Now the Army wants to ditch Pinnacle completely after that supposed failed test. Why not simply continue the research and address any short coming??? I personally think that Pinnacle is getting shafted because Point Blank sees Pinnacle as a threat to their government contract. Pinnacle Armor has come up with some very good ideas for flexible body armor that can provide rifle level protection. Our soldiers deserver the best protection and as it stands I have not see a fair test of Dragon Skin. It may or may not be ready for issue to our troops but the technology and the company deserve a fair evaluation and continued support if the technology has potential. From the testing I have seen the armor has real potential. YOU have already payed for most of the R&D I say let them finish the work.

Sorry for the rant but I also work for a small company that does a lot of R&D work for the military through the SBIR program and I would hate to see my company get treated by the Army the way Pinnacle has been treated.

mcb

jeepinbanditrider · 03-11-2008, 06:51 PM

I also think that they are better than the rep they are getting. The problem is the vest is expensive and IMO the military is looking for excuses to keep from having to buy them without coming out and saying they "cost too much".

There have been a few for sale here and there on Lejeune Yard Sales - Camp Lejeune, North Carolina from time to time where guys spent their own money to get one for the trip over to Iraq then come backand try to sell them to recoup some of the costs.

The Tengu · 03-12-2008, 04:05 PM

The Dragon Skin armor is not suitable for everyday wear by uniform patrol.

The Army disregarded it probably for political reasons. And I have not had faith in NIJ testing for the longest time.

The NIJ protocols for testing of soft body armor leaves a lot of loopholes that manufacturers can exploit, namely the "fair hit" concept, lack of aging simulation, and lack of contact shots. I don't trust NIJ armor testing.

I also do not trust NIJ handcuff approval either, since ASP handcuffs earned NIJ approval and they are actually dangerous for officers to use because they are simply not reliable in struggles with combative subjects.

chupacabrachus · 03-12-2008, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Tengu

.....
I also do not trust NIJ handcuff approval either, since ASP handcuffs earned NIJ approval and they are actually dangerous for officers to use because they are simply not reliable in struggles with combative subjects.

Sorry to change the subject, but I'm interested in this. I haven't seen too many folks using the ASP cuffs so I haven't heard the good, bad, and ugly about them yet. Please expand on this.

The Tengu · 03-12-2008, 08:04 PM

I originally got the ASP handcuffs because of the keyholes on both sides, the flat contact surface that makes it easier to slap them on, the very smooth action, and the choice of colors.

The problem is that they flex. In my last two fights with combative suspects, after I had the first cuff on and twisted the subject's arm back to get their other wrist cuffed, the cheek plates flexed and the bow went on the OUTSIDE of the cheek plates.

In both instances, I had to reach down and use TWO hands to UNDO the malfunction and then guide the ratchet between the plates in order for it to lock.

Taking both of my hands to put on one cuff is very unsafe, and in the last occurrence maintaining control of my suspect was made much more difficult because I had to essentially pin their arm down with my knee while I FIXED the problem.

There was also an earlier issue with the first run of ASP cuffs where they were so easy to pick you could do it with the tip of a knife, or a fork, or anything you could stick in the hole. That issue has since been resolved.

Still, I do not have faith in these cuffs anymore.

chupacabrachus · 03-12-2008, 09:42 PM

10-4. Thank you sir.

EDIT: Sorry for the interruption, now back to our regularly scheduled program.

03-11-2008, 07:33 AM	#1
shadow6274 XDTalk Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Millbrook, Alabama Posts: 37	"Dragon Skin" vests Just curious if any LEO wears the dragon skin vest from Pinncale and what are your thoughts and comments about this vest. Thanks in advance for your feedback. __________________ The Gunney USMC, Retired 1982 to 2003

03-11-2008, 02:25 PM	#2
Lurch XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 131	I don't know of any that wear them, and I've heard lotsa horror stories about them. The Army gave them a fail, and and DOJ doesn't approve of them either from what i hear Army Refutes Dragon Skin Claims __________________ Search & Rescue: Saving the worlds idiots from natural selection. http://defarge.deviantart.com/store/

03-11-2008, 03:06 PM	#4
ArmyGuy45 XDTalk 3K Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Mesa,AZ / Ft Carson, CO Posts: 3,310	but i thought there was no such thing as "negative" publicity __________________ US Army 2005 - Present XD45 Compact - My Carry Suresights Springer Precision Trigger Kit/Bar ( needs install ) NRA Life Member Myspace My theory on the Armys new thing about counseling statements... "Save a tree, smoke a private!"-Me

03-11-2008, 06:25 PM	#5
mcb XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: North East Ohio Posts: 1,994	Pinnacle Armor the maker of Dragon Skin is not getting a fair shake by the Army. The Army gave Pinnacle Armor millions of your tax dollars through the SBIR (Small Business Innovative Research) program to develop the Dragon Skin body armor. Then when it comes time to test the armor by a third party testing group some how a person from Point Blank (Pinnacle's competition and the company with the contract to supply armor to our troops) gets hired as a consultant for the test. WTF!!! Now the Army wants to ditch Pinnacle completely after that supposed failed test. Why not simply continue the research and address any short coming??? I personally think that Pinnacle is getting shafted because Point Blank sees Pinnacle as a threat to their government contract. Pinnacle Armor has come up with some very good ideas for flexible body armor that can provide rifle level protection. Our soldiers deserver the best protection and as it stands I have not see a fair test of Dragon Skin. It may or may not be ready for issue to our troops but the technology and the company deserve a fair evaluation and continued support if the technology has potential. From the testing I have seen the armor has real potential. YOU have already payed for most of the R&D I say let them finish the work. Sorry for the rant but I also work for a small company that does a lot of R&D work for the military through the SBIR program and I would hate to see my company get treated by the Army the way Pinnacle has been treated. mcb __________________ If at first you don't succeed; RELOAD _ _ _ _ My web site

03-11-2008, 06:51 PM	#6
jeepinbanditrider XDTalk 4K Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Mineral Wells, Tx Posts: 4,389	I also think that they are better than the rep they are getting. The problem is the vest is expensive and IMO the military is looking for excuses to keep from having to buy them without coming out and saying they "cost too much". There have been a few for sale here and there on Lejeune Yard Sales - Camp Lejeune, North Carolina from time to time where guys spent their own money to get one for the trip over to Iraq then come backand try to sell them to recoup some of the costs. __________________ Stuff USPSA-A59201

03-12-2008, 04:05 PM	#7
The Tengu XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 1,727	The Dragon Skin armor is not suitable for everyday wear by uniform patrol. The Army disregarded it probably for political reasons. And I have not had faith in NIJ testing for the longest time. The NIJ protocols for testing of soft body armor leaves a lot of loopholes that manufacturers can exploit, namely the "fair hit" concept, lack of aging simulation, and lack of contact shots. I don't trust NIJ armor testing. I also do not trust NIJ handcuff approval either, since ASP handcuffs earned NIJ approval and they are actually dangerous for officers to use because they are simply not reliable in struggles with combative subjects. __________________ The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. United States Code, Title 10, section 311, paragraph (a)

03-12-2008, 08:04 PM	#9
The Tengu XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 1,727	I originally got the ASP handcuffs because of the keyholes on both sides, the flat contact surface that makes it easier to slap them on, the very smooth action, and the choice of colors. The problem is that they flex. In my last two fights with combative suspects, after I had the first cuff on and twisted the subject's arm back to get their other wrist cuffed, the cheek plates flexed and the bow went on the OUTSIDE of the cheek plates. In both instances, I had to reach down and use TWO hands to UNDO the malfunction and then guide the ratchet between the plates in order for it to lock. Taking both of my hands to put on one cuff is very unsafe, and in the last occurrence maintaining control of my suspect was made much more difficult because I had to essentially pin their arm down with my knee while I FIXED the problem. There was also an earlier issue with the first run of ASP cuffs where they were so easy to pick you could do it with the tip of a knife, or a fork, or anything you could stick in the hole. That issue has since been resolved. Still, I do not have faith in these cuffs anymore. __________________ The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. United States Code, Title 10, section 311, paragraph (a)

03-12-2008, 09:42 PM	#10
chupacabrachus XDTalk 3K Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,153	10-4. Thank you sir. EDIT: Sorry for the interruption, now back to our regularly scheduled program.

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