Entry Weapons - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

Glxso201 · 03-01-2007, 03:55 PM

This summer I'm starting with the Narcotics team, and it's time to make a choice on entry weapons: the department has basic 870's, and a couple of M16's. I'm debating on whether to use one of those, or possibly purchase an M4 style AR or another pistol caliber carbine.

What do you use for entries, what accessories do you have on it, and why?

Jcobb · 03-01-2007, 04:23 PM

Our Tact unit entry weapons consist of the following as well as a few surprises:

MP5 .40 cal with eotechs and lights

.223 Ar pistols with eotechs and lights

rem 870s with buckshot

rem 870 with less lethal bean bags

.223 Ar-15 rifles

Each operator carries 6 flash bangs as well as a moderate amount of smoke or gas.

The narcotic guys usually just have their HK USP .40, a shotgun or two and maybe an Ar-15.

Each situation is different and how you load up depends on the situation.
If we are serving warrants, the tact unit goes into action and handles the entry, then hands it over to narcs. If its buy / busts or snatch and grabs, usually the narc guys call in a K-9 or 2, an officer they trust and just go balls to the wall.

If you can, get your hands on an MP5. If you want the AR / M16 platfiorm, I would suggest no longer than the carbine, but preferably the pistol version or pay your tax stamp and go with a SBR.

Two main factors to consider: the mission and what you want to accomplish, and cost---get the best you can afford.

Glxso201 · 03-01-2007, 04:41 PM

We're a pretty small department....our Narcotics team is made up of 2 people from from each of the surrounding five counties (we work all five in tandem), and we use the KBI tac team for the really high risk stuff. An MP5 is probably out of the question...an AR pistol doesn't sound like a bad idea tho.

BBunin · 03-01-2007, 04:56 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong.
What you're looking for is a close range weapon that will stop a BG cold.
Additionally, it should provide sufficient firepower to surpress someone who is firing on you at said range.

That sure as bleep sounds like a Collapsible stock semiauto shotgun, loaded with 7-8 rounds of buckshot to me.

Sharkbait · 03-01-2007, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBunin

Correct me if I'm wrong.
What you're looking for is a close range weapon that will stop a BG cold.
Additionally, it should provide sufficient firepower to surpress someone who is firing on you at said range.

That sure as bleep sounds like a Collapsible stock semiauto shotgun, loaded with 7-8 rounds of buckshot to me.

Plus one on that!!! I have a 20" barrell 870 with a Knoxx Specops stock and I love it. Rather than telling you how great it is, go pattern one at 5-10 yards which is the farthest you would ever have to shoot in an entry situation and you will be convinced. Use Win or Remmy 00buck and you should get no larger than a volleyball sized group at 10 yds.
Enjoy.

Semi's are nice but back in the Coast Guard chambering a round in the 870 made everyone stop and think twice before trying something stupid. Never underestimate the power of a good deterrent.

Jcobb · 03-01-2007, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBunin

Correct me if I'm wrong.
What you're looking for is a close range weapon that will stop a BG cold.
Additionally, it should provide sufficient firepower to surpress someone who is firing on you at said range.

That sure as bleep sounds like a Collapsible stock semiauto shotgun, loaded with 7-8 rounds of buckshot to me.

True, BUT what happens when you hit the house and the BG is firing at you from the couch and has a 3 month old with him / her?

I love shotguns on entry for the intimidation factor. I dont like to be the one assigned to it though unless it is loaded with bean bags. To get it to where it holds 7-8 rounds you need the mag tube extension. Overall length is going to be a factor when it comes to cornering and manueverability.

You can build an AR pistol for about 800 bucks then rig it with whatever options are necessary for your situation. Our tac guys that have gone this route report that there is no noticeable loss in accuracy. For entry a lot of them prefer it over the MP5.

It it were my op, and I had a 10 man team with limited resources, I would put 4 on perimeter. A shotgun and a M16 / AR are divided with them. 6 guys for entry... Point man has .223, second in has sidearm, third in has shotgun with bean bags, 4th in has sidearm, 5th in with sidearm and 6th in with shotty as rear guard. This gives you three dedicated cover officers, (.223, bean bag, sidearm) 2 for handcuffing / securing, and a rear guard to clean up any surprises. Bean bagger goes nowhere without secondary officer on his tail to provide lethal support if needed, and bean bagger also knows how to use the bean bags in a lethal manner if needed.

But thats just me. I have done it with as little as 3 guys, and as many as 12. Personally, I prefer 3-5 on entry for a normal house. Smaller apartments or hotel rooms I would cut back, larger homes or businesses I would add. Each situation dictates the response.

Mike TRT · 03-01-2007, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glxso201

This summer I'm starting with the Narcotics team, and it's time to make a choice on entry weapons: the department has basic 870's, and a couple of M16's. I'm debating on whether to use one of those, or possibly purchase an M4 style AR or another pistol caliber carbine.

What do you use for entries, what accessories do you have on it, and why?

a full sized 870 or a full sized ar-15 or m-16 are not practical entry weapons, they are too long.......stay away from the mp-5 as it shoots a pistol round......its very simple, don't over complicate this, get yourself a quality brand m-4 type rifle, colt, rock river, bushmaster etc.....get a professional light (not some rinky dinky gimmick light) and its good to go, also you'll need a 3 point sling so it hangs right in front of you while your completing other tasks with your hands......

there is a difference between a professional setup and a weapon system for hobyists........

Glxso201 · 03-01-2007, 06:53 PM

Thanks a lot for the responses...why do i always just have to nod when i read your stuff Mike?

The Knight Of Light · 03-01-2007, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike TRT

a full sized 870 or a full sized ar-15 or m-16 are not practical entry weapons, they are too long.......stay away from the mp-5 as it shoots a pistol round......its very simple, don't over complicate this, get yourself a quality brand m-4 type rifle, colt, rock river, bushmaster etc.....get a professional light (not some rinky dinky gimmick light) and its good to go, also you'll need a 3 point sling so it hangs right in front of you while your completing other tasks with your hands......

there is a difference between a professional setup and a weapon system for hobyists........

Hmmmm.......

Being an officer of the law you should be able to get an SBR version of this rifle very easily.

Mike TRT · 03-01-2007, 07:06 PM

TKOL, those are beautiful rifles.........

03-01-2007, 03:55 PM	#1
Glxso201 XDTalk 500 Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Midwest Posts: 576	Entry Weapons This summer I'm starting with the Narcotics team, and it's time to make a choice on entry weapons: the department has basic 870's, and a couple of M16's. I'm debating on whether to use one of those, or possibly purchase an M4 style AR or another pistol caliber carbine. What do you use for entries, what accessories do you have on it, and why?

03-01-2007, 04:56 PM	#4
BBunin XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 2,029	Correct me if I'm wrong. What you're looking for is a close range weapon that will stop a BG cold. Additionally, it should provide sufficient firepower to surpress someone who is firing on you at said range. That sure as bleep sounds like a Collapsible stock semiauto shotgun, loaded with 7-8 rounds of buckshot to me. __________________ . When seconds count, the police are only five minutes away. ------------------------------------ MY PARTIAL TOY LIST XD-9 5" (Production) XD-40 5" (Limited10) SA 1911 Loaded (Limited10/SingleStack) STI Spartan (Limited10/SingleStack) Kahr PM9 (CCW) KT P3AT (CCW) Remington 11-87 (Trap) Remington 870 Express (HD/Trap) Misc Rifles for fun and hunting

03-01-2007, 07:06 PM	#10
Mike TRT XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 1,376	TKOL, those are beautiful rifles......... __________________ \"There is no hunting like the hunting of a man. And those who have hunted men long enough and liked it never cared for anything else thereafter.\"

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03-01-2007, 04:23 PM	#2
Jcobb XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 145	Our Tact unit entry weapons consist of the following as well as a few surprises: MP5 .40 cal with eotechs and lights .223 Ar pistols with eotechs and lights rem 870s with buckshot rem 870 with less lethal bean bags .223 Ar-15 rifles Each operator carries 6 flash bangs as well as a moderate amount of smoke or gas. The narcotic guys usually just have their HK USP .40, a shotgun or two and maybe an Ar-15. Each situation is different and how you load up depends on the situation. If we are serving warrants, the tact unit goes into action and handles the entry, then hands it over to narcs. If its buy / busts or snatch and grabs, usually the narc guys call in a K-9 or 2, an officer they trust and just go balls to the wall. If you can, get your hands on an MP5. If you want the AR / M16 platfiorm, I would suggest no longer than the carbine, but preferably the pistol version or pay your tax stamp and go with a SBR. Two main factors to consider: the mission and what you want to accomplish, and cost---get the best you can afford.

03-01-2007, 04:41 PM	#3
Glxso201 XDTalk 500 Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Midwest Posts: 576	We're a pretty small department....our Narcotics team is made up of 2 people from from each of the surrounding five counties (we work all five in tandem), and we use the KBI tac team for the really high risk stuff. An MP5 is probably out of the question...an AR pistol doesn't sound like a bad idea tho.

03-01-2007, 06:53 PM	#8
Glxso201 XDTalk 500 Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Midwest Posts: 576	Thanks a lot for the responses...why do i always just have to nod when i read your stuff Mike?