L.E.O.: "Carrying in Condition 3 Saved My Life!

[panther308]

you would be amazed at what can happen in the 3 secs (approx) it takes you to rack your slide, someone once asked why I carry a gun and that it was silly as they have never seen a incident that would require someone to have a gun I told them that carrying a gun w/one in the tube was like having home or car insurance you never know when it will be used but it's there if you need it

[Neocode]

Originally Posted by hacker15

Kind of agree with some of this - I don't think I'd be looking at his trigger finger ('less I was planning on shooting it off!).

With the XD and most other modern semi's, there's no reason not to carry with one up and a full mag - as long as you have the right duty holster (at a minimum containment level 2 or better). Now, would I stick a Glock with one up and a full mag in my belt? Not likely.

What is a containment level 2 holster? Newbie question I know....

[Miguel]

"That said, condition 3 is gonna save my life too 'cause when I stick my G21 in my waistband to walk to the garage I'll never have to worry about putting a crease in my ***!"

This was one of the selling points of the XD for me.

[hacker15]

Originally Posted by Neocode

What is a containment level 2 holster? Newbie question I know....

Level 2 is active retention - usually a thumb break, but can be internal (Blackhawk's SERPA is an example of a level 2 holster for the XD).

Passive retention, which is usually compression of the holster against one or more surfaces of the pistol and is often adjustable, may be fine for carry, but you wouldn't want to use it for duty as the weapon can be removed with a tug from in front or behind you (NOT good when you're facing a prisioner or other assorted BGs!). Two decetives were shot in NYC several years ago because they were carring with passive retention and the prisoner in the back seat was able to reach between the seats and pull one of the LEOs gun. He executed both of them, removed the handcuffs (he was also cuffed with his hands in front - another MAJOR NO-NO!!!) and calmly strolled away.

Level 2 retention is the minimum acceptable for some departments - but most require level 3, where it takes two discreet actions to get the pistol out of the holster - thumb break and an internal devise of some kind, usually a locking lever or toggle is the most common. For non-street use, Level 2 is usually fine - just something to prevent someone from getting the weapon in court or while they're in your custody.

[Mercmar]

Anybody who carries a Glock Mexican-style, with a round chambered, probably doesn't have a Condition 1 brain.

[Neocode]

Originally Posted by hacker15

Level 2 is active retention - usually a thumb break, but can be internal (Blackhawk's SERPA is an example of a level 2 holster for the XD).

Passive retention, which is usually compression of the holster against one or more surfaces of the pistol and is often adjustable, may be fine for carry, but you wouldn't want to use it for duty as the weapon can be removed with a tug from in front or behind you (NOT good when you're facing a prisioner or other assorted BGs!). Two decetives were shot in NYC several years ago because they were carring with passive retention and the prisoner in the back seat was able to reach between the seats and pull one of the LEOs gun. He executed both of them, removed the handcuffs (he was also cuffed with his hands in front - another MAJOR NO-NO!!!) and calmly strolled away.

Level 2 retention is the minimum acceptable for some departments - but most require level 3, where it takes two discreet actions to get the pistol out of the holster - thumb break and an internal devise of some kind, usually a locking lever or toggle is the most common. For non-street use, Level 2 is usually fine - just something to prevent someone from getting the weapon in court or while they're in your custody.

Gotcha... thanks... my carry holster is a passive retention then... but I'm not LEO and not intending on needing to restrain someone and retain my firearm. Hoping to not be in that situation...

[hacker15]

Originally Posted by Neocode

Gotcha... thanks... my carry holster is a passive retention then... but I'm not LEO and not intending on needing to restrain someone and retain my firearm. Hoping to not be in that situation...

Yeah - as long as you're not doing the "wrestlemania" with some dirtbag on the street or in his apartment, you're usually fine with a passive retention holster. Just be careful and stay safe.....

[Neocode]

Originally Posted by hacker15

Yeah - as long as you're not doing the "wrestlemania" with some dirtbag on the street or in his apartment, you're usually fine with a passive retention holster. Just be careful and stay safe.....

Point taken. Hoping that my martial arts skills (Tae kwon do) will be sufficient to down any attacker long enough for me to high-tail if its a public area, or to reach a safer position. Down here in Florida, we have the "stand your ground" law, and don't HAVE to retreat. Obviously that is the better option 9 out of 10 times....

[MGD 45]

Just my 2 cents for the last two posts...I've been in a gunfight on-duty and was shot with a 1911 .45 from about 4 ft. away. I can clearly understand that his eyes looked straight at the threat the entire time, because mine did also. It is natural to look at what you think is going to hurt you and I can also understand why the BG would pull his trigger more than once trying to fire it. He was also a little confused and excited and probably never thought twice about it as he kept pulling it. I have seen Officers in my dept. do the same thing on the range when their Glocks failed to fire ....of course the story could be made up....who knows for sure..just my thoughts

[Mike TRT]

Originally Posted by MGD 45

Just my 2 cents for the last two posts...I've been in a gunfight on-duty and was shot with a 1911 .45 from about 4 ft. away. I can clearly understand that his eyes looked straight at the threat the entire time, because mine did also. It is natural to look at what you think is going to hurt you and I can also understand why the BG would pull his trigger more than once trying to fire it. He was also a little confused and excited and probably never thought twice about it as he kept pulling it. I have seen Officers in my dept. do the same thing on the range when their Glocks failed to fire ....of course the story could be made up....who knows for sure..just my thoughts

agreed, when we do simunition training and we are the bad guys in the scenarios, we get our hands shot to hell with sims because that is where the officers are looking when firing. and sims hurt like hell on the knuckles.....