there's going for a ride, then there's Disneyland

[The Tengu]

Dude, waaaaaaaay more people die from .22's than Tasers.

[TxCop312]

Originally Posted by whtvrsclvr

If you want less lethal, shoot a .22, don't zap someone with 50,000 volts.

I would like to make the example, hypothetical as it is, of how an officer would respond if, on approach, I drew a taser on him and attempted to discharge it. It's so safe and harmless, why should there be something wrong with that?

That first statement is so ignorant I won't even go in to detail. Suffice to say that even YOU know it was stupid.

For the second, nobody ever said it was safe and harmless. It is listed as less lethal-use your browser and find the company's site. By definition, less lethal means that it is less likely to cause serious bodily injury or death. If you resist police during a lawful arrest(and I'm thinking that someday soon you will, with the contempt for them that you display),then that officer is justified in using force to effect the arrest. That force-as demonstrated in the video-begins with verbal commands. You see how well that worked. Next is empty hand control techniques. Those also failed. Oh, ok it must be time to let him go kill someone with his truck since those levels of force were ineffective? Nope. The next level depending on that PDs use of force-and not YOUR opinion-could be Taser use. Once force is used to control a subject, that force was escalated as the situation with the subject escalated. It also desescalated once the drunk quit trying to get up and fight. That officer saved someone's life-maybe even the drunk driver's. Maybe even yours.

[Wilds]

Whtvrsclvr, you say not to taser a man walking away from you. This man seems to be walking to get in his truck. What happens when the officer lets him just get in the truck as you say to do and drive away. Sure the LEO gets his plates and most likely will follow not provoking further trouble, while in the mean time some of your loved ones are driving down the opposite side of the highway and this man crosses the median and kills them. Then what's to be said about that. You would be the one once again complaining that this man did not detain the suspect. That's his job right? To protect and serve. He is protecting himself and others that may be around and in danger. Can anyone win this topic with you? I'm starting to think not. Join the force if you want to make a change. Thanks Chris

[1of2]

Originally Posted by whtvrsclvr

if the man in the video died, I wonder if everyone would be so supportive of shocking him 5 times.

I would!

There are certain things in life you just should know better than to do. Criminals are dangerous poeple and should be treated that way. Cops are paid to do the job and to try to protect us but they are not paid to die or put themselves in a position to be harmed. That guy was a couple steps from getting back behind the wheel of the vehicle and could have very easilly killed someone or pulled a gun and shot the officer. There is a point where you have to assume someones intentions are bad and act acordingly. When the guy stopped being beligerent to the cop he stopped getting tazered. The bottom line is the guy should have known better than to threaten a cop the way he did and got what he deserved. If he would have died because of it then that is the chance he took. Cops should not have to pussyfoot around people who are acting towards them in a dangerous manner. Neither should anyone else.

[TxCop312]

Originally Posted by Wilds

Whtvrsclvr, you say not to taser a man walking away from you. This man seems to be walking to get in his truck. What happens when the officer lets him just get in the truck as you say to do and drive away. Sure the LEO gets his plates and most likely will follow not provoking further trouble, while in the mean time some of your loved ones are driving down the opposite side of the highway and this man crosses the median and kills them. Then what's to be said about that. You would be the one once again complaining that this man did not detain the suspect. That's his job right? To protect and serve. He is protecting himself and others that may be around and in danger. Can anyone win this topic with you? I'm starting to think not. Join the force if you want to make a change. Thanks Chris

I'm beginning to think that he applied and was rejected. Sour grapes.

[whtvrsclvr]

Originally Posted by Wilds

Whtvrsclvr, you say not to taser a man walking away from you. This man seems to be walking to get in his truck. What happens when the officer lets him just get in the truck as you say to do and drive away. Sure the LEO gets his plates and most likely will follow not provoking further trouble, while in the mean time some of your loved ones are driving down the opposite side of the highway and this man crosses the median and kills them. Then what's to be said about that. You would be the one once again complaining that this man did not detain the suspect. That's his job right? To protect and serve. He is protecting himself and others that may be around and in danger. Can anyone win this topic with you? I'm starting to think not. Join the force if you want to make a change. Thanks Chris

I believe I already mentioned that I would act differently in the situation, and I explained why. If you think you will change my mind, you haven't read my posts. This isn't about winning, it is about judgment differences. I have a different POV than you do, and you shouldn't be so concerned with winning an argument with me.

As for joining the force, I've thought about it. However, I've been on the opposite side of the courtroom from too many LEO's to willingly choose those people as co-workers. Thankfully, amidst all those inappropriate citations that cops have given me, judges have decided to show reason and respect for the laws and dismiss charges or acquit me of wrongdoing. Thankfully I've never been tasered, because I don't see how a judge could set that right after a LEO pops off inappropriately, as they've shown me that they do more often than not. Again, my concern is not with the use of force in any case... it is with the indiscretion with which such force is applied that I have a problem.

I choose to take care of people in a different way. I like the way I do it. If I can't handle a situation with my own two bare hands, while on the clock, I just wont' handle it and an aggressor in my facility will have additional consequences to deal with if they make matters worse while I'm waiting for some help to arrive. This is what real life is like. I took my job because I'm absolutely great at doing it according to the rules, and according to my own beliefs. When someone stabbed my administrator in the head, I didnt' need a taser to take that person down. When someone threw a former coworker out of a window, I didn't need a taser then either. The same when they throw chairs through windows in our offices, or any other aggressive behavior.

Plus, if I was a cop, that would mean there is just one less person that the LEOs can bring people to, when they prove to be too much for the LEO's to handle. It is not a sign of skill to shoot someone with a taser; it is just a way to win, but it solves no real problems.

I repeat, I would have acted differently. And in slightly more dangerous situations that that video shows (remember that we're not seeing the whole thing), I HAVE acted differently.

[Wilds]

As far as Txcop312 goes, I've never applied and never been rejected. Not a case of that at all. I would like to know what made you think that. Just serving my right to voice my opinion as others on the board. As for Whtvrsclvr, it is just that, a different point of view and that's what make people different. Nothing more to be said. Thanks Chris

[TxCop312]

Well Wilds, I don't believe I was talking to you, so I don't owe diddly in the way of an appology. I was actually agreeing with you, but hey jump my ****. The nut jobs at whtvrsclvr's job site sound very dangerous. Especially when you give them objects that they can use to stab your boss in the head. Yea, I've taken one or two nutbags to the ground with nothing but my hands too. So your bragging doesn't impress me. It's probably a good thing you're not a public servant, as with that attitude of yours I might have engine trouble when you call for back up.

[xdron40]

Originally Posted by Wilds

As far as Txcop312 goes, I've never applied and never been rejected. Not a case of that at all. I would like to know what made you think that. Just serving my right to voice my opinion as others on the board. As for Whtvrsclvr, it is just that, a different point of view and that's what make people different. Nothing more to be said. Thanks Chris

Wilds, Txcop312 was quoting you, but it seems pretty obvious he was alluding to Whtvrsclvr as being the one rejected, not you.


Oops, should have finished reading the thread, would have seen Txcop312 already explained it.

[whtvrsclvr]

here I go, making stuff up again. I'm sure glad that old man paid for being "unruly" with his life. Truly a capital offense, right up there with murder and rape. As well as that 14 year old having a heart attack... so safe. Bastard deserved it, for hurting himself like that and then scaring the itty bitty officer.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/11/stun.gun.ap/index.html

so make that number 75

I'm sorry for my rant, but these things are bad news. Shoot a gun. A citizen's safety should remain paramount, even over an officer's (again, IF the citizen does not introduce weaponry or lethal force,) and the officer chooses to a- be present and b- introduce life-taking force... remember that no matter how mad you are at a perp, until you sit on the bench he is innocent and should be treated as such. They should not get hurt in an unfair fight (unfair fights are permissible to minimize potential injury), and if they get hurt in a fair fight, so be it. Now, when you start hooking people up to a house....
you get the idea.

There are rules. One of those rules is that that police must always win. Another is that innocent people must not be endangered by your effort to apprehend a perp. It is up to the officer to reconcile that the innocent and the suspect may turn out to be one in the same.

I'm out, and I've taken my nitpicking with TxCop to pm, for everyone's benefit. You know my opinion.