You are "legal" to carry, however, we are not...

[SoldierAtHeart]

Alright, I was wondering what the general law enforcement stance is on the age requirement to purchase a handgun (21), as well as ammunition(21). I would also like to know your stance on these issues in regards to concealed carry.

As a male of 18 years, although I consider myself to be a responsible adult, I am not permitted by law to purchase a handgun or handgun ammunition. Also, it is not legal for me to carry a concealed weapon in many states at my age even if I have a family member purchase the weapon for me.

How is this justice? Where is my right to the Second Amendment? Do I not have the right to defend myself and those that I care for? Let’s be real here, those who intend to do harm with their firearms aren’t going to give a damn whether it is legal to carry them or not. These laws only hinder honest citizens such as me.

In regards to purchasing at 18...well I don't know how effective that has been in reducing crime. Seems to me that if criminals really want to get their hands on a "piece", that they can find means other than purchasing from a licensed dealer. But, if it has reduced crime, so be it. Couldn't there be some exceptions made though? Perhaps training courses or other programs someone could go through to obtain a license to purchase? Something that you’re average Joe out to rob the seven eleven wouldn't bother with?

It seems the only option for men such as me (notice I didn't use the word "kids", as I deem myself to be an adult just like the rest of you...honestly you ought to give us more credit sometimes) is illegal carry. I am more than willing to disobey the law when I feel that it conflicts the safety of me or loved ones. I just wish that I didn't have to. Honestly I feel that there is something dreadfully wrong with the world when a man has to choose between the law and safety/peace of mind.

Anyway, I was wondering if I could here what the law enforcement community has to say about this and anyone else who wants to chime in as well.

Thanks,
Erik

[Delija]

I am not law enforcement, but I will give you my two cents.

It's very simple.

An age has to be used. 21 is the longstanding standard for many things. It was the voting age until relatively recently. It is the drinking age in most states. Pretty much universally when you reach the age of 21, you are considered an adult by any measure.

Is it right? Fair? Even reasonable? You would have to go on a case by case basis. Some 16 year olds are more mature and responsible than some 21 year olds.

Sometimes life just isn't fair. But there are rules, and we all have to play by them.

You want a gun at 18 and can't buy one. Well, when I was 18, I couldn't vote, yet I could be drafted and die for my country (and have no say in it).

I could drink at 18 in my home state (now it's 21). Years later I owned a bar in that state (NY). While I owned the bar, they raised the drinking age from 18 to 19. That actually helped my business. Then they raised the drinking age again from 19 to 21, and that hurt my business (I had a crowd from two nearby universities). BUT, 21 year olds were indeed better behaved than 18 year olds. And 19 year olds as well.

You can complain about not being able to buy a gun at 18, but it won't accomplish a thing. Rules are rules.

Of course you can always enlist in the military and get your guns for free.

My son is going to be 20 next month. He's in the military. He wants to fly fighter jets. But he can't. Because he's too young. He will probably get to fly, but he will need to get his college degree and go to Officers Candidate School before he can go to flight school. So even though he can get his degree very fast (and free) he'll still be 21 or 22 by the time he can do what he wants.

You need to work for some things in life. You need to wait for some things in life. And for many many things you have to both work AND wait.

You will look back in three years and think that you wasted your energy by being frustrated about not being able to buy a gun.

You can drive a car. That is REAL freedom. Be thankful you did not have to wait until you were 21 for that!!! Get your priorities in order. Buying a gun should not be something you should be losing sleep over. Enjoy being 18 and enjoy the things 18 year olds can do that older people can't do. Play ball. You can't when you are 50 (at least not as well). Meet lots of girls. You won't be able to when you are married (which is statistically what you can expect). Enjoy not having to be responsible for a family (again, expect to when you are older).

Every age has it's pluses and it's minuses.

Lastly...you say you are a responsible adult. But then you also say that you are willing to break the law and carry a gun without a permit. So how do you justify that? You cannot be a "responsible criminal". The terms are mutually exclusive. Real adults understand this.

Peace,
D.

[[TASF]Overkill]

As has been said, you have to draw the line somewhere. Carrying a firearm requires a certain level of maturity. Where do you consider "the cutoff"? Not everyone older than 18 will be mature, but not everyone under 21 will be a total ****tard either... It's just a line that was chosen...

Some people will bring up the "But I can fight for my country at 18!" argument... Well, that's stupid. Being handed a gun in a situation that controlled, where the stupid ones (The ones that have a problem taking orders) usually get weeded out, and doing stupid things will get you.. well... in some kind of trouble... is different than being 18, trying to impress your High School buddies, etc....

Kind of the same reason my insurance rates go down when I hit 24. Statistically, I'm less likely to drive like a total idiot after that age.

Congratulations on being a mature 18 year old, but... sadly... you are more of the exception than the rule.... My little brother is one that I would also put in your category, but alas...

[The Tengu]

Let's face it, people in your age group are for the most part irresponsible, reckless, and careless.

Ask yourself if you would be comfortable with the "average" 17-year-old kid you knew in high school carrying a concealed and loaded firearm to school every day. There is no difference between a 17-year-old and an 18-year-old mentality.

Laws like this are written for the majority, not the minority.

Here's what I suggest to you: start saving up money and spend it on firearms classes. Talk to the instructors and see if you can rent a handgun for your classes. This will teach you proper gun handling skills, proper holstering and re-holstering skills, trigger control, sight alignment, reloading skills, malfunction clearing, and a ton of other **** you thought you already knew how to do. You will also get a chance to use several different guns so you know what you will want to buy when you turn 21.

Guns are also not the answer to all of your problems, and they are not some kind of magical amulet that will ward off bad guys. The good news is that you already have that piece of equipment; it's housed within your skull.

[SoldierAtHeart]

Posted by Delija:

“Get your priorities in order. Buying a gun should not be something you should be losing sleep over. Enjoy being 18 and enjoy the things 18 year olds can do that older people can't do. Play ball. You can't when you are 50 (at least not as well). Meet lost of girls. You won't be able to when you are married (which is statistically what you can expect). Enjoy not having to be responsible for a family (again, expect to when you are older).”

-Uhuh…so basically life is bliss until you hit 21. I mean because you definitely won’t need a handgun before then. What are the chances…?

Posted by Delija:

“Lastly...you say you are a responsible adult. But then you also say that you are willing to break the law and carry a gun without a permit. So how do you justify that? You cannot be a "responsible criminal". The terms are mutually exclusive. Real adults understand this.”

-Responsibility is not always dictated by the law. Responsibility is your attitude in regards to following CORE human values (honoring your word, showing respect, restraint, maturity). I am on occasion (new years, birthday parties) an underage drinker. This is against the law. Does it make me irresponsible? No, there is always a designated driver and things are never allowed to get out of hand. I make sure of this.


The Tengu:

I am not in high school. Though when I was…no I wouldn’t have felt comfortable with every 17 year old and his dog packing heat to class. I am an out-of-state college student. OUT ON MY OWN. This is a major factor alright. I’m not some gun-obsessed kid living at home who wants to pack a pistol to the bus stop every morning. I will be 19 in two months. I am fully aware that guns are not magical in their ability to ward off the BGs. One of the biggest factors is situational awareness. But a gun couldn’t hurt right? As far as my knowledge with guns goes, I was raised with them. I was shooting when I was six years old. Granted my proper holstering and re-holstering skills, trigger control, sight alignment, reloading skills, and malfunction clearing could probably use some perfecting. I am not opposed to taking training (I’m all for it). But don’t assume that I get all of my firearms knowledge from lurking around the forums rather than from experience. I am accomplished in firing handguns mind you.

No one has commented on my thoughts to have exceptions made by having to acquire special “underage” permits through courses/instruction/competence…whatever it takes.

Thank you for your responses

[ampleworks]

I'll agree I know a good number of 18 year olds I wouldn't trust with a 22 rifle, much less concealing a 1911...then again I know people who are 30 without a lick of sense.

I guess it comes down to common sense, and it basically boils down to, 21 has been determined to be less of a "****up" age than 18. When some unwed 19 year old gets pregnant, most would think just a tad different of her if she was 21.

/shrug, I don't get the whole idea about rifles and shotguns at 18 and handguns at 21, a class 3 long gun...could be legally purchased by an 18 year old (i think? correct me if im wrong) if they both had the money and could get the CLEO to sign off....

Sure thing officer, I don't have a concealed handgun but my Greasegun is in the trunk!

[wfrazee]

Prefaced by : NOT AN LEO, just a friend of those who are and a man with two many $.02 thoughts to not say something.

I, too, was bitten by this particular bug not too long ago. I have always been one of those people who got interviewed, met people, etc and then shocked the hell out of them when they find out my real age. Invariably, the guesses and "I thoughts" would surpass 25 years old. This due mainly to the fact that I had been working since 13 and full-time since 17 besides which people always told me I had an "old soul".

What does this have to do with owning a handgun? Jack Sh[ ].

At that time, I had fired a number of rifles, a couple handguns, and an UZI. I had my sights on several handguns as potential candidates for ownership, but was yet unable to purchase them.

Was it grating? Absolutely.

Would I support an underage permit with a stringent training requirement? Yes.

Do I think the current laws in place make sense? Also, yes.

The simple fact of the matter is that I live by a college campus and also did at that time. There are very few people on that campus that I could honestly say that I would trust, then or now, to legally have ownership of a handgun. I know for a fact a few had smuggled one into dorm rooms for precisely the reasons you mention. Self-defence being out on thier own.

These were people who had grown up around handguns, generally knew which end to point where, but in a stressful situation I think i would have even odds on them dropping the magazine out of battery like some stupid comedic action movie.

The simple fact of the matter is that a great many people at that age are still either "growing up" mentally or are outwardly mature but prone to impulse. Either condition can be dangerous when you add a handgun into the mix.

By all means, it would be nice if there were an underage training and permit system but I submit that since in ANY state such permits would be may-issue the number of them on the streets would be tiny and for darn sure would be limited to possession and purchase, not CCW.

A side note: In the state of colorado, the sheriff of any county may, based upon the reasonable expectation of threat to life or limb of such a person, issue a temporary emergency permit to anyone between the ages of 18 and 21. I forget the lifetime on such a permit but its only like 30 days.

[USN RM3]

Well, I am a LEO, and since the original post was asking how a LEO would take a stance on this...I will give you my .02 cents.....Do I agree with this law.....after some quick thought and reading some of these posts.........
My answer is NO, I don't.....However I will say this...some of what these other posts said are very very true....I am sure you could think of some other people you know that are in your senior class or ones that you just graduated with, that would scare even you with a handgun......

Let me ask some of the other folks whom are making posts on this thread...would you rather be shot with a .12gauge 18 in barrel and some OO buck, or a 9mm, ANSWER NONE....But that is not going to be....18 year olds can get these and do....

In my area I have pot heads, whom still live with mom and dad, have no job, break into vending machines for change....these 18 year olds...no should not have a handgun or any other gun for that matter....

I think a class and a license for anyone under 18 years is a feasible solution to the problem....I as a Police Chief in a small rural community, has no input though....

I know of very responsible 18 year olds that have pistols thier fathers have purchased for them, and I for one support them, and would never arrest them, providing they are not using it in a criminal manner....

long post sorry....

Tom

[dolanp]

You may not be able to carry a handgun around but that doesn't stop you from defending your home with a shotgun or rifle if you want to. When we enter the public domain with dangerous things (guns, cars, planes) that require some kind of knowledge to wield or use, we typically have to meet age requirements and show some proficiency. That's just the way of things.

I sympathize with you because I am only 21 now, but hey we all wanted to drive when we were 13 too. Like others have said, sometimes life is just a waiting game.

[whtvrsclvr]

why not take the time to become proficient in some other means of self defense or weapons fighting? Everyone swears that guns are the only way to protect yourself, but what about times when lethal force is not necessary (i.e. a fair fight, unarmed) but you still need to defend yourself. Learning to make use of weapons of opportunity will give you something to do until you're mature enough for a gun.

P.S. not a LEO either.