9mm vs .40 vs .45 for Cops

[ghost--scout]

Originally Posted by ah8176

If that's so, then why does Force Recon use specially modified 1911? (last time I checked) Why has the Navy, our sister service moved to Sigs? My guess is because as Uncle Sam's bastard children we're at the end of the pipe and we get whatever's left over. I personally don't like them, but I'll agree with you when you say there is nothing wrong with them. There's an area below the hammer that houses a spring that can't actually be cleaned without dissasmbling the entire weapon by an armorer. Those springs are probably loaded with 10 or 20 years worth of carbon. If you take a piper cleaner dipped in CLP and clean out the crevace that houses the hammer, you might be able to knock some of it out of the spring housing. A buddy of mine did it and it improved the trigger pull of his M-9 ALOT.

Take the grips off and put it in the dry solvent tank, it will do wonders. SOP for my last platoon. If you can find one of the precision weapons armorers ask him if he can do a little trigger job for you.

[ah8176]

Originally Posted by ghost--scout

Take the grips off and put it in the dry solvent tank, it will do wonders. SOP for my last platoon. If you can find one of the precision weapons armorers ask him if he can do a little trigger job for you.

Like I said, I'll agree that there's nothing wrong with them, but I just personally don't like them. They've been in service for a long time now, and I think we could use an upgrade. Smith and Wesson's new M&P would be a God-send.

[The Tengu]

Originally Posted by CSI

"Personally, I carry a .45acp 'cause it makes the biggest hole..."

Was wondering when someone was going to say that, lol!

Your .45ACP generally has a velocity in the ball park of 700-850fps, with some of the higher $ ammo reaching out to 900fps.

If a .45's velocity does not break the 800fps barrier, it simply doesn't have the necessary velocity in order to expand to its fullest potential. In that scenario, a good .40 JHP actually expands MORE than the .45, and you'd be surprised how many times a .45 does NOT fully expand.

Again, refer to the variables listed in the first post.

Even if it doesn't expand, that ***** is still .45 inches wide.

[yocan]

Originally Posted by ah8176

If that's so, then why does Force Recon use specially modified 1911? (last time I checked) Why has the Navy, our sister service moved to Sigs? My guess is because as Uncle Sam's bastard children we're at the end of the pipe and we get whatever's left over. I personally don't like them, but I'll agree with you when you say there is nothing wrong with them. There's an area below the hammer that houses a spring that can't actually be cleaned without dissasmbling the entire weapon by an armorer. Those springs are probably loaded with 10 or 20 years worth of carbon. If you take a piper cleaner dipped in CLP and clean out the crevace that houses the hammer, you might be able to knock some of it out of the spring housing. A buddy of mine did it and it improved the trigger pull of his M-9 ALOT.

actually they have the SOCOM pistol, 1911s and M9s issued to them. Outdoors they use M9s a lot, direct action they use 1911s and I think they use the Socoms for salt but I'm not positive about that.(have also heard they work better with suppressors, but again, haven't heard it from any recon guys, just that they have them and the general consensus is they hate them for the weight and size)

Originally Posted by ah8176

Like I said, I'll agree that there's nothing wrong with them, but I just personally don't like them. They've been in service for a long time now, and I think we could use an upgrade. Smith and Wesson's new M&P would be a God-send.

don't like those with gloves on personally....

Originally Posted by ghost--scout

Take the grips off and put it in the dry solvent tank, it will do wonders. SOP for my last platoon. If you can find one of the precision weapons armorers ask him if he can do a little trigger job for you.

see heres the issue with that, can't do it in the field. We technically aren't even allowed to take the grips off.... so there is a problem.

Originally Posted by The Tengu

Even if it doesn't expand, that ***** is still .45 inches wide.

which is why I'm tempted to swith to a .45 a .45 hole in the hand the hand is inoperable a 9mm or .355 hole in the hand is probably going to be disabled.
further extremities the .45 is going to do way more damage than a 9mm due to if you only have 3 inches it won't expand that much.. Chest cavity depends on what is hit. Upper arms and legs not sure there would be a significant difference.

Personally change the SOP for cleaning them and give us berretta 96s and I wouldn't complain. The higher pressure supposedly keeps it operating more frequently in fine sand.

HK P30Ls would be nice, take that or si 2022s like they give the Afghans I'd take it too.

[zenfly]

Hi guys'n'gals....Heres something for all of you (and used to be me) that thinks .45acp doesn't expand at 800-900fps.

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

[19cohiba75]

Originally Posted by goathunter

just remember that your equipment is made by the cheapest bidder

And when he say's this it is true in every way, plane's, building's

[zenfly]

Heres anothr good one ....

The M1911 Pistols Organization Home Page

[community]

I go for the 40. IMO

[yocan]

.357 sig/.45ap best options and 556 none penetrate too severely. and all have great take down potential.
10mm is a round of war, not good for the police.

[psi2941]

Originally Posted by CSI

I know this is a dead horse, but I am taking a different approach with this thread.

First and foremost, there is no such thing as a "magic bullet." Shot placement, not caliber, is the single greatest component in stopping a threat. There are only 2 vitals that are a guaranteed 1 shot stop: severe the spinal cord, kill the brain. Heart shots do NOT equal kill shots. They may bleed out and die from heart shots, but it's not always guaranteed.

When comparing the 3 rounds, make sure to compare apples to apples. The military has to use ball ammo (round nose) because of the Geneva Convention and rules of war. In that scenario, the .45 leaves the biggest hole.

In law enforcement or defensive shooting, jacketed hollow points (JHP) are an entirely different beast vs ball ammo. There are way too many variables to factor to come up with a "winner" between the 9mm, .40 and .45 rounds. Some examples:

1. Are you shooting through glass?
2. Are you shooting through a car door?
3. Are you shooting through a wall?
4. Is it summer time or winter time? In the winter, people have more clothes on and thus more layers the round has to penetrate. You'd be surprised what multiple layers of fibers will do to a bullet.
5. Are you being shot at? If so, do they have a rifle?
6. Are you a great shot to begin with on a stationary target where there is no stress, no movement and it is not firing back? You know if you hit the bullseye or if you always hit low, left, completely miss etc. Firing under duress makes you worse than you are normally.
7. What's the distance between you and the target?

Some of these favor the .45 while others favor the 9mm for being more beneficial. A good compromise between the two will always be the .40, so keep that in mind. There is a reason 70% of LEOs use a .40 as their duty caliber.

You will read "fishing stories" where Joe used his trusty 1911 .45ACP and single handedly stopped 20 terrorists while being hit three times but never gave up the fight. People will jump on this idea and declare that the .45 MUST be the superior round because Joe and his red cape are proof of it.

Ask those same people which round killed has killed more people in the last 100 years (the answer is the 9mm).

Ironically, more people have been killed with a .22 than anything else!

The point is, with the technology that goes into developing modern JHP ammunition, there is no magic bullet. You have to find something that is comfortable for YOU to shoot and that allows YOU to hit the target. If you are comfortable with a .45, great! If you prefer a 9mm, awesome! If you like compromise and want to shoot .40, go for it!

Just don't ask "what should I get for a gun" because the only person that can realistically answer that question is YOU.

One more thing, when you go to the range and practice, make sure that you also put your pistol in your weak hand and shoot 1 handed shots. You never know when you are going to get hit in your strong hand and one hand-weak hand shots are all you are left with. If you are one of those big grip gun users (ie GLOCK 21) good luck with that...

Note: if people want me to elaborate more on the "JHP variables" and how they effect the different rounds, I will.

i didn't read ur entire post but its what ever caliber ur department tells you to carry. if its your call, what ever u like. they all shoot! this debate its like ar vs ak.