9mm vs .40 vs .45 for Cops

[jdub]

Originally Posted by SD Monkey

The gov used to issue Glock 9mm but now issues H&K .40 cal, I wonder why that is? The gov used to issue Speer Gold Dot in 9mm but now uses 135 grain Hydra Shock .40 cal ammo, Hmmm what's the reason for this? The gov must have a pretty good reason to make these changes.

What do you mean "the gov"? Any specific agency you are referring to?

Also "the gov" doesn't always make the best decisions and can be influence by politics and money instead of performance. Not saying you are incorrect, but I would be hesitant to base all my decisions on what "the gov" does.

Now to answer the question, if I were LE I would probably choose a .45 with 9mm in second place. 40's look good on paper, but they always seem "snappy" to me. I'm sure I could get used to it with enough rounds down range. I've never fired a .357 Sig, but that would probably be up there with the .45 for me.

This is all just personal preferences and if I wouldn't be upset if I was issued any of these calibers.

[danp]

Originally Posted by CSI

"Personally, I carry a .45acp 'cause it makes the biggest hole..."

Was wondering when someone was going to say that, lol!

Your .45ACP generally has a velocity in the ball park of 700-850fps, with some of the higher $ ammo reaching out to 900fps.

If a .45's velocity does not break the 800fps barrier, it simply doesn't have the necessary velocity in order to expand to its fullest potential. In that scenario, a good .40 JHP actually expands MORE than the .45, and you'd be surprised how many times a .45 does NOT fully expand.

Again, refer to the variables listed in the first post.

That is simply not true. Bullets are constructed differently to expand at different velocities. I have personally fired my duty ammo into game animals (already dead except in one case) and recovered bullets that expanded in flesh.

I see this argument over and over from the "high velocity" folks, but they never take bullet construction into account.

[goathunter]

Originally Posted by cwsims84

I've been a proud employee of the govt by means of the Army for the last 6yrs and I can tell you that the govt buys cheap crap that never works quite right and almost always needs some "tweaking".... Just because the Govt buys it doesnt mean its the best.

just remember that your equipment is made by the cheapest bidder

[SD Monkey]

Originally Posted by jdub

What do you mean "the gov"? Any specific agency you are referring to?

Also "the gov" doesn't always make the best decisions and can be influence by politics and money instead of performance. Not saying you are incorrect, but I would be hesitant to base all my decisions on what "the gov" does.

Now to answer the question, if I were LE I would probably choose a .45 with 9mm in second place. 40's look good on paper, but they always seem "snappy" to me. I'm sure I could get used to it with enough rounds down range. I've never fired a .357 Sig, but that would probably be up there with the .45 for me.

This is all just personal preferences and if I wouldn't be upset if I was issued any of these calibers.

Originally Posted by goathunter

just remember that your equipment is made by the cheapest bidder

Oh boy, the Glock fans will be very upset to learn that Glocks were the cheapest bidder and then replaced by a gun that cost three times as much, must have sucked pretty bad for DHS to change from Glock to the H&K P2000. The ammo change was an improvement as well. Come to think of it ICE dropped Glock and now uses Sig. INS and BP used to carry some nasty Beretta's but now use the H&K P2000.

I wouldn't put off checking out what Fed LEO's carry just because it the "GOV issued stuff". Who do you think spends more on weapons and ballistics testing? Sure they may not issue the best or the most outrageously priced gear but neither does your local police department.

The .40 cal seems to be a favorite calibre, maybe because you don't need premium ammo like in 9mm to get the performance you need. 45's are popular but I have seen and read about so many people being blasted full of large holes that never die and then the cop is killed by one suspect with a .22 pistol.

Everyone always talks about shot placement but tell me this how many Police departments or Fed LEO's that still teach 2 to the body and 1 to the head? I know of only 1, U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

[deadsoul]

I'm probably being a retarded fanboy, but .357 sig seems best if you can ignore price - why didn't you include that as an option?

Best penetration thru cover, and the mythical 'hydrostatic shock'

[willy3]

In the 40 years I've been involved in Law Enforcement, I've heard the 9m/m versus .45ACP rant thousands of times. Thank God for the invention of the .40 caliber!!!!! My caliber of choice for going through the front door is still the 12 gauge.....

[ELECTRO]

Just an regular "hobby" shooter here, but I believe that the best handgun and caliber would be the ones that you can shoot the best, and consistently hit the target.

[ghost--scout]

Originally Posted by SD Monkey

INS and BP used to carry some nasty Beretta's but now use the H&K P2000.

There is nothing wrong with Berettas.

[ah8176]

Originally Posted by ghost--scout

There is nothing wrong with Berettas.

If that's so, then why does Force Recon use specially modified 1911? (last time I checked) Why has the Navy, our sister service moved to Sigs? My guess is because as Uncle Sam's bastard children we're at the end of the pipe and we get whatever's left over. I personally don't like them, but I'll agree with you when you say there is nothing wrong with them. There's an area below the hammer that houses a spring that can't actually be cleaned without dissasmbling the entire weapon by an armorer. Those springs are probably loaded with 10 or 20 years worth of carbon. If you take a piper cleaner dipped in CLP and clean out the crevace that houses the hammer, you might be able to knock some of it out of the spring housing. A buddy of mine did it and it improved the trigger pull of his M-9 ALOT.

[KenW.]

Imagine the bullet failing to expand at all... You're still left with a .45 inch hole in your target as opposed to a smaller 9mm. The .40 Short & Weak is an answer to an unasked question.

Life energy leaks more quickly from larger holes...