Tell Me about The 357 Sig Round

[Tard]

I tested rounds in home made gel last week and the .357 Sig was the one that tore through the gel, the 2 water-filled milk jugs and kept on truckin'.

Honestly, that is why I don't shoot/carry it - too much penetration for my tastes.

However, it is indeed a hot, flat-shooting round that will get past normal barricades and 'place stopping hits'.

Anyone shoot it into car windshields? That's a tough test of ammo.

[agalindo]

Here's an article from Firearms Tactical.

Several readers have contacted us to ask for our opinion of the .357 SIG cartridge, and its effectiveness for personal defense use, particularly when loaded with a 125-grain JHP bullet. Our usual response is that it demonstrates adequate performance, meaning that the bullets are capable of penetrating deeply enough to potentially inflict an effective wound. But it doesn't seem to perform any better than current 9mm, .40 S&W or .45 ACP bullets in terms of penetration and expansion.

We feel .357 SIG appeals to people who are preoccupied with velocity and kinetic energy more than with producing effective wound trauma.

The velocity of the .357 SIG 125-grain JHP bullet doesn't appear to make it superior in penetrating automotive sheet metal, windshield glass or other hard barrier materials than existing 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP JHP bullets. In fact, .357 SIG demonstrates virtually identical performance characteristics as the other cartridges when fired through hard barrier materials.

To ensure JHP bullets wouldn't over-expand and fragment when propelled at .357 SIG velocities, most bullet manufacturers couldn't simply take existing 9mm 124-grain JHP bullets, install them in .357 SIG cases and pronounce the result as ".357 SIG 125-grain JHP," because this would be a step backwards.
Existing 9mm 124-grain bullets, designed for nominal 9mm velocities, would over-expand, fragment and under-penetrate. Essentially, they'd be re-inventing the 9mm 115-grain JHP +P+ cartridge. Therefore, the ammo companies had to design sturdier JHP bullets specifically for the .357 SIG; ones that wouldn't over-expand and fragment in bare gelatin.

They succeeded in designing such bullets, but the bullets appear to be so resistant to over-expansion that they under-expand when passing through clothing. As a result, in shootings involving clothed people (the most common scenario), the .357 SIG 125-grain JHP bullet will more than likely over-penetrate and exit the body.
In a strict wound ballistics sense, over-penetration is better than under-penetration because the bullet will at least have the potential to intersect and bore through vital cardiovascular structures. But over-penetration is also a waste of wounding potential.

In comparison, many 9mm 147-grain subsonic JHP bullets demonstrate better penetration and expansion performance than .357 SIG 125-grain JHPs.

Perhaps in the future the ammo companies will be able to develop better 125-grain bullets for the .357 SIG. But until this happens we feel .357 SIG is a solution to a non-problem.
Feel the need for speed? You'd be better armed with a standard velocity (1100-1150 fps) .40 S&W 165-grain JHP.

[agalindo]

Here's a good thread.

http://www.tacticalforums.com/ubb/Fo...ML/000368.html

[Tard]

To sum it up: shot placement.

[Mephis]

If you're worried about bear, a auto loading handgun isn't going to be the ticket for you...

Especially not a .357sig. .40S&W with a 200GR hard cast would slow a bear down, but I doubt you'd stop it.

Also, I fail to see the point of .357sig even if it's a cool ideal. .40S&W seems like a better round to me. It's the best auto loading round out there along with +P 9mm, at least in my opinion.

[ltblue425]

Stopping a human is never a sure thing with a handgun. It seems logical to me to carry the biggest weapon possible if bears are a concern.

[husker_t]

I can't speak to using autoloaders in the most common cartridges (9mm, 40 S&W, 45 ACP, and 357 Sig) on bear, as I've never tried it. What I do know is that old-timer woodsmen generally considered a 357 magnum revolver (usually with min. of a 4" barrel, to get enough velocity) to be the minimum amount of firepower considered to be adequate for bear defense. My grandfather was a serious hunter and mountain guy all his life, and he carried a Ruger GP100 4" 357 for his trail gun toward the end of his life. Even with that and a heavy load for bear, he said that something like a 41 or 44 mag would have been even better, but he just didn't like the weight and recoil from larger calibers.

But a .357 mag should be able to do the job. For example, look at some of these Buffalo Bore loads for 357 mag. One of them gives you 800 ft/lbs of energy and 1700 f.p.s velocity (!!!) in a JHP round, or 783 ft/lbs and 1400 f.p.s. in a hard-cast round. There are also some great .357 mag bear loads by DoubleTapAmmo.com. It's true that not even these rounds would drop every bear in its tracks. But these are WAY more powerful bullets than any of these popular semiautos could shoot, even in their best +P loads. And these .357 rounds, well placed, would surely slow a bear down or wound it badly, even if it didn't drop it instantly.

I would tend to agree with the notion that says for bear defense, use something at least as powerful as a .357 revolver with one of these loads, and preferably something even larger such as a 44 mag. And if you're not able to do that, you're better off using one of the proven and tested sprays, which ironically will probably be MORE effective in getting a bear away from you than an underpowered, small caliber semiauto, which as someone here has said, is likely to just tick Mr. bear off and make him come after you all the harder.

[TacBlack]

.357 Sig is a 40 S&W necked down to 9mm. I don't think anyone mentioned that. High velocity, penetrates heavy cover -- like doors on semi-trucks.

What you gain in velocity, you lose in bullet weight and bullet diameter.

[rogerxd45]

kinda off topic i did some testing with some different guns on sheet metal on a 1\8" steel plate (i think it might have been just alittle smaller but it was still pretty think) the 45 acp let about 1\4 inch dent the 9mm left about the same but the 40 punched right trough it and i amagine that the 357 would do the same but with less deformation of the metal before it went through

[AKpredator]

The Sig P229 in caliber 357 Sig is in the holsters of the U.S. Secret Service, Federal Air Marshals and a number of state and local law enforcement departments. They also have the option of the SIG P226. It's a nasty little round. Not many folks handload it or shoot it in competition but it's a good round for self-defense. I wouldn't hesitate to carry it in mountian lion country but it's a little short on the bruin question. Still, something is better than nothing.