Penn and Teller's Bulls**t #35... have you seen it?

[JustSomeGuy]

Last week, I was reviewing some Comcast cable "on demand" stuff, and noticed something from Penn and Teller about gun control. Fearing the worst, I turned it on, but was pleasantly surprised to see that they think gun control is, well... Bulls**t! They even reviewed the Second Amendment and had a rather unique take on it, in that they interpreted it as saying pretty much that since the first part says the government will have a well regulated militia, it being necessary to a government, that the people should also be armed to counter the threat of the government.

I was wondering if anyone else has seen it and what your take on it might be...

Comments?

[Blown330]

I've heard that interpretation before...I think it is a valid point.

[remat457]

They are pro-gun....Saw them in Vegas(at the Rio) and their show includes using 2 Colt Pythons. Their is also a snippet in their show brochure about their safety training.

Good show btw...

regards

[KP Ling]

Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy

They even reviewed the Second Amendment and had a rather unique take on it, in that they interpreted it as saying pretty much that since the first part says the government will have a well regulated militia, it being necessary to a government, that the people should also be armed to counter the threat of the government.

I'm in college, and though it is a conservative one, there are plenty of anti-gun kids(I'm thirty and had to pay for 4 years of college with 8 years working for Uncle Sam so they are all kids to me) around here. The point about the militia thing and start saying silly things like "National Guard" and "Army Reserves." I point out to them that U.S. Code #1 (yes the first act of congress, ever) defines the militia as "all able-bodied males age 16 or older..." So, the founders clearly meant for us, private citizens, to be armed in order to aid the government or tear it down depending on the cirsumstances.

I do not think the Red Coats are going to burn Washington tomorrow or Hitler will get elected but that does not mean rights grow old and obsolete and therefore, should be done away with. It is like saying we are not going to bring back slavery so let's get rid of the 13th amendment just to prove it. Also, according to U.S. Code #1 there are a lot of gun laws on the books that are illegal since 16 year old males can not buy them. However, I doubt anybody's son will go down to the local Wal-Mart, try to buy a gun and then sue saying that local, state and lower federal statutes are illegal. It would be nice though, on principal at least because I can not honestly say that a lot of 16 year olds today should have guns. But then again there are a lot of adults who should not have them either.

[chupacabrachus]

"private citizens, to be armed in order to aid the government or tear it down depending on the cirsumstances."

Couldn't agree more.

A lot of times when this debate comes up I hear, a "leave it to the professionals" comment. I've met plenty of the "professionals". I'd rather not do that. "Militias" are touchy subjects which sit on steep slippery slopes amongst the American people. I don't really know enough about organized modern-day militia's to form an opinion on them, but based on what the media shows, you'd think they are all lunatic "machine-gun" (i.e. SKS, AK, or any other Semi-auto that looks menacing to the media) toting mobs.

[BrokenArrow]

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

The free state and the govt are not necessarily the same thing. Nor is the militia of the govt and the militia of the people.

The security of a free state (a free state in general, not the state or federal govt in particular) is secured by the check and balance of armed individuals (the people who make up the militia) against the armed forces of the govt (state or federal).

United States Code: Title 10 – Armed Forces
Subtitle A – General Military Law
Chapter 13 – The Militia

Sec. 311. Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are -
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard
and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of
the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the
Naval Militia.

Other than age, health, gender, or citizenship, there are no additional provisions for exemption from membership in the unorganized militia.

While it is doubtful that it will ever be called to duty, the United States civilian militia does legally exist. It is you and me and we are well regulated enough IMO.

The 2A says the people (not the militia, not the state) have the right to keep and bear arms. People means individuals every where else it is used in the Bill of Rights, and it does here too.

In the vernacular of the time, "well regulated" had other uses/meanings too. A well regulated clock kept good time, a well regulated oven an even temperature, a well regulated rifle was accurate, and a well regulated militia meant they could fire and maneuver with precision, not necessarily that they were regulated by law/the govt.

Some courts have seen it this way (the 5th) and some have not (the 9th).

Most importantly we ned the SCOTUS to say:

It is an individual right. Not just a right of the state or feds to have a militia, or even the people to have a militia, but of the people to keep and bear arms (just what it says).

Then we need them to say it applies to the states as well as the federal govt, or states will be able to infringe on that right consistent w their own state constitutions. IOW, the feds couldn't infringe your right to keep and bear arms, but your city, county, or state could.

Then we can argue over what "well regulated", "keep", "bear", and "arms" and "infringe" means...