Mushrooming - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

thejoe · 08-08-2007, 08:25 AM

Well, last week at the range I happened to be shooting into a hillside of hard clay and, to my surprise, I found a bunch of bullets I had fired in various states of deformity. I'm concerned, though, that the .40 bullets didn't seem to expand very well in comparison to the 9mm bullets I was using. I'll post pictures a little later.

I was using WWB for both pistols. The 9mm was a 115 JHP and the .40 was a 180 JHP. I noticed that the 9mm mushroomed quite nicely. I was actually quite impressed. I recovered two examples of .40 bullets... 1 looked like it was FMJ it had deformed so little. The other mushroomed a little bit off center, but nothing to write home about. The dimple in the tip is still discernable as are the scorings around the tip where the copper is supposed to break to form the "petals."

I know WWB isn't great ammo... But it should be good enough, right? If this last range run was any indicator, I may be switching calibers for my carry weapon. Thoughts???

joe

Glxso201 · 08-08-2007, 08:31 AM

Most modern hollowpoints work on a hydraulic principle, meaning that they need to hit a soft/liquid barrier (such as a body) to expand properly. When they hit a hard surface (windshield, car door, hard clay), they crumple in on themselves to facilitate passing through that surface.

thejoe · 08-08-2007, 09:50 AM

But both rounds were passing through the same surface. Why did the 9mm mushroom nicely and the .40 maintain it's original shape?

I will test both rounds through water jugs before I make a final decision, just to be clear.

joe

ichy_trigger · 08-08-2007, 09:58 AM

Full metal jacket ammo is not designed to expand at all.

Glxso201 · 08-08-2007, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ichy_trigger

Full metal jacket ammo is not designed to expand at all.

He was using WWB JHP

If you don't feel comfortable with the WWB ammo, then try one that has been proven. Popular choices are Speer Gold Dot, Federal HST and Hydrashoks, and Remington Golden Sabres.

Personally, in my duty weapon, I carry Hornady TAP LE 124 gr. 9mm.

Clobbersaurus · 08-09-2007, 05:38 AM

I shot .40 hydrashoks and golden sabers into water jugs the other day. I have them sitting on my desk. Ill snap a couple shots and post them later today if i can. The hydrashoks mushroomed differently a couple times (one was almost completely flat with some debris at the bottom of the jug it rested in, the other mushroomed uneven). The sabers mushroom BEAUTIFULLY each time. Gotta see to believe.

Clobber

Bree · 08-09-2007, 06:52 AM

Try Federal LE EFMJ's They will mushroom whether they hit liquid or solid mass which one reason that I am using them. Plus they feed like FMJ's.

Clobbersaurus · 08-09-2007, 10:20 AM

Here are a couple pics. Sorry about the quality, please dont rank on me or my camera

The left one is the Golden Saber and the right is the Hydrashok. Each went through 4 1gal water jugs.

The Tengu · 08-09-2007, 10:29 AM

JHP's have to enter a more liquid medium than dirt in order to expand as designed.

That said, the WWB JHP's in .40 S&W are probably one of the worst .40 JHP designs out there. If I remember correctly, they were the first JHP's ever made by Winchester for the .40 cal.

thejoe · 08-09-2007, 11:59 AM

Where might I find the evaluation of the WWB JHPs for .40? I'm interested to read that report... They're obviously the least expensive JHPs available for .40 which is, of course, why I have them. If I need to get better JHPs for personal protection, then I guess that's that. I'll try and post pics of my results ASAP.

By the way, I recognize that JHPs are designed to operate ideally by passing into liquid. What has given me pause is that the 9mm JHPs (also WWB) expanded ideally while being fired into the same medium as the .40 JHPs. That's why I raise the question: why did the 9mm work as designed (even with the inappropriate medium) and the .40 did not?

joe

08-08-2007, 08:25 AM	#1
thejoe XDTalk 500 Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Moscow, ID. Posts: 691	Mushrooming Well, last week at the range I happened to be shooting into a hillside of hard clay and, to my surprise, I found a bunch of bullets I had fired in various states of deformity. I'm concerned, though, that the .40 bullets didn't seem to expand very well in comparison to the 9mm bullets I was using. I'll post pictures a little later. I was using WWB for both pistols. The 9mm was a 115 JHP and the .40 was a 180 JHP. I noticed that the 9mm mushroomed quite nicely. I was actually quite impressed. I recovered two examples of .40 bullets... 1 looked like it was FMJ it had deformed so little. The other mushroomed a little bit off center, but nothing to write home about. The dimple in the tip is still discernable as are the scorings around the tip where the copper is supposed to break to form the "petals." I know WWB isn't great ammo... But it should be good enough, right? If this last range run was any indicator, I may be switching calibers for my carry weapon. Thoughts??? joe __________________ SA XD-40 Service S&W SW9VE Kel-Tec P3AT Walther P22 Norinco SKS

08-08-2007, 09:50 AM	#3
thejoe XDTalk 500 Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Moscow, ID. Posts: 691	But both rounds were passing through the same surface. Why did the 9mm mushroom nicely and the .40 maintain it's original shape? I will test both rounds through water jugs before I make a final decision, just to be clear. joe __________________ SA XD-40 Service S&W SW9VE Kel-Tec P3AT Walther P22 Norinco SKS

08-08-2007, 09:58 AM	#4
ichy_trigger XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 7,413	Full metal jacket ammo is not designed to expand at all. __________________ "The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." http://militarysignatures.com/signatures/member2645.png

08-09-2007, 05:38 AM	#6
Clobbersaurus XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Orange County, NY Posts: 262	I shot .40 hydrashoks and golden sabers into water jugs the other day. I have them sitting on my desk. Ill snap a couple shots and post them later today if i can. The hydrashoks mushroomed differently a couple times (one was almost completely flat with some debris at the bottom of the jug it rested in, the other mushroomed uneven). The sabers mushroom BEAUTIFULLY each time. Gotta see to believe. Clobber __________________ Springfield XD40 Serivce Springfield 1911-A1 Loaded Black Stainless Colt Python 6" Mossberg 590 Mariner w/ Knoxx SpecOps Stock Ruger 10/22 w/ Christie Super Stock Romanian AK-47 Noveske N4 Light Low Profile Carbine

08-09-2007, 06:52 AM	#7
Bree XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 2,852 Blog Entries: 5	Try Federal LE EFMJ's They will mushroom whether they hit liquid or solid mass which one reason that I am using them. Plus they feed like FMJ's. __________________ Shoot Straight and Ride Safe! Bree XD .45 Compact -- Ruger SP-101 .357 Mag. -- Keltec P3AT .380 Rock River Arms 20" Varmint A4 AR-15 w/4-16x56mm MilDot Ruger 10/22 Black Stainless Mossberg 590 Mariner 12 Ga w/Knoxx SpecOps Harley Davidson Dyna Wide Glide Patriot Guard Rider Iron Butt Association Member The 60's Can't Die As Long As I Won't Leave Them!!

08-08-2007, 08:31 AM	#2
Glxso201 XDTalk 500 Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Midwest Posts: 576	Most modern hollowpoints work on a hydraulic principle, meaning that they need to hit a soft/liquid barrier (such as a body) to expand properly. When they hit a hard surface (windshield, car door, hard clay), they crumple in on themselves to facilitate passing through that surface.

08-09-2007, 10:20 AM	#8
Clobbersaurus XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Orange County, NY Posts: 262	Here are a couple pics. Sorry about the quality, please dont rank on me or my camera The left one is the Golden Saber and the right is the Hydrashok. Each went through 4 1gal water jugs. __________________ Springfield XD40 Serivce Springfield 1911-A1 Loaded Black Stainless Colt Python 6" Mossberg 590 Mariner w/ Knoxx SpecOps Stock Ruger 10/22 w/ Christie Super Stock Romanian AK-47 Noveske N4 Light Low Profile Carbine

08-09-2007, 10:29 AM	#9
The Tengu XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 1,766	JHP's have to enter a more liquid medium than dirt in order to expand as designed. That said, the WWB JHP's in .40 S&W are probably one of the worst .40 JHP designs out there. If I remember correctly, they were the first JHP's ever made by Winchester for the .40 cal. __________________ The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. United States Code, Title 10, section 311, paragraph (a)

08-09-2007, 11:59 AM	#10
thejoe XDTalk 500 Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Moscow, ID. Posts: 691	Where might I find the evaluation of the WWB JHPs for .40? I'm interested to read that report... They're obviously the least expensive JHPs available for .40 which is, of course, why I have them. If I need to get better JHPs for personal protection, then I guess that's that. I'll try and post pics of my results ASAP. By the way, I recognize that JHPs are designed to operate ideally by passing into liquid. What has given me pause is that the 9mm JHPs (also WWB) expanded ideally while being fired into the same medium as the .40 JHPs. That's why I raise the question: why did the 9mm work as designed (even with the inappropriate medium) and the .40 did not? joe __________________ SA XD-40 Service S&W SW9VE Kel-Tec P3AT Walther P22 Norinco SKS

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode