Lasers or not?

[robinsre]

IMHO in most situations lasers are a better training tool than a shooting tool

They work well to practice trigger control while dry firing.

Pick a small area across the room. Put your laser on it. Dry fire. Is your laser still in the place it was before?

[Paparock]

This is a very interesting thread because I am thinking about this very subject. Should I get a Crimson Trace or one of the Light/Laser Combo units? My thinking is somewhat different from many of the posts that have been stated so far. I am not really concerned with trying to intimidate someone as I don’t plan on the subject seeing my firearm unless it becomes time to use it. If the threat breaks off and retreats then that is great for both of us but if by use of the cover of light or concealment to the last possible moment I was always taught not to let the bad guy see your weapon until it was time to use it. I’m not saying not to let him know you are armed and willing to use deadly force. Perhaps it is partly from my old martial arts knife training of not letting your enemy know you are armed with a blade until he has been cut but I don’t believe in giving someone with evil intent any idea what may happen to him next with the possible exception of the sound of a round of buckshot sliding home into the chamber of a 12 gauge like that which stopped two men from robbing me late one dark night south of Houston. I’m not young anymore, my eyes don’t see as well, and thanks to a nerve condition that is kissing kin to Agent Orange neither does a lot of my body so the idea of a laser to aiding me if my body decides not cooperate the way I would like it to at the worst possible moment sounds full of possibilities. There are also those times, when you have your good gun hand disabled or find yourself at some impossible awkward position and you simply must defend your life as the bad guy is just plain rude and refuses to assault you at a more convent time. For us old folks that have passed out prime and need all the help we can get when the proverbial balloon goes up I am considering a tactical light and laser for my new XD .45 but in what combination I am not quite sure as of yet.

[KingArthur]

All good points, I was thinking of lasing the eyes, and the laser would be prinicipally for those shots on someone standing still when you absoluately positively need to turn out the lights fast through the occular window without hitting the head he has in front of him (i.e. perp snatches your wife in an underground parking area, and proceeds to hold a knife to her throat). As far as everyday confrontations, yes, the laser would be pointless. I was just thinking along the lines of still precision shooting when you don't want to be in the heat of the moment and slam that trigger and everyone goes down.

As far as officer presence, I have found that to be usefull, though it tends to creep out when we least suspect it. I have found it comes out when someone is panicing and won't talking to me, like a family member, and then that swtich turns on and you are barking at them to get their attention to get them to focus and control the problem. I think a firm officer presence stops a lot of violence before it ever happens. However, sometimes you go from presence to deadly before you know it (not in our personal lives however,) but on the job. I am glad they stopped preaching the hierarchy of force and made it circular. I think a lot of people who want to memorized the hierarchy were getting hurt because they felt they had to go through each step before reaching deadly. When guns are in play it may go to deadly before you even have a chance to speak.

[Paparock]

I agree KingArthur. A laser is just a component of my weapons system as the way I am planning it. Each component has a role and I try to make it as fool proof with backups as possible with critical components as possible while maintaining the critical functionality of the weapon at the same time in case of a parts failure at a critical moment. Weapons have critical junctions just as the human body does. Some components are critical junctions of such importance that malfunctions in those areas mean complete and total system failure. For example, ammunition function in the handgun must be as close to 100% as is possible or its user may become a casualty. Likewise the use of laser in some critical limited situations may allow no reflex disabling of the motor control center of the human body when other preferred precision weapons are not available due to time or situation. There are grip mounted lasers that automatically activate when grasped and they can be used in conjunction with a front rail mounted light. However, there are also front rail mounted light/ lasers that offer the user the ability for civilian user to identify threats. This need is sometimes overlooked by many people in the concealed carry market. Is the person you are being confronted by a real threat? In today’s society it is not something we can neglect. Is that a cell phone or a gun in their hand in the dark? A weapons mounted light can offer the option to both temporally blind the person by a brilliant flash of light, especially when directed to their eyes, make the person instinctively turn their head away (if in fact they were aiming a weapon), and give you the ability to indentify that there is in fact a real lawful threat.

Safety for both ourselves and others is our goal and just as we want to go home safe to our love ones no one wants to live the nightmare of an unjustified use of deadly force. There are also tactics anyone who carries a gun be it civilian or law enforcement should take the time to learn that will help in these instances also. There are also many highly recommended schools that teach self-defense with a handgun for both law enforcement and civilians that include the use of tactical lights and lasers. For anyone but especially civilians that carry concealed read everything you can get your hands on by Massad Ayoob. Not only may it save your life in the field but also in the courtroom if you ever are forced to use deadly force in defense of your life or that of another!

[1ezmonkey]

I'm a firm beliver in lasers you don't need to turn them on if you don't want to use them but there are siuations where you don't have the ability to aquire a good site picture and a laser can save your life.

As for laser flashlight combos I like my flashlight in my hand. That way I can hold it to the side to give the BG something to fixate on. Accounts of real gunfights have proven that flashlights are bullet magenets.

[MordeKyle]

i got trijicon ns and the insight x2 light on my 40 sc. its a great set up.

[rmarcustrucker]

still love my wheel gun with crimson. taurus 651 shrouded sa/da with crimson. Only 5 shot, but i've got to understand it's a close range weapon. My glock 27 has night sights and ct grips. Again, do I think it will work in a SD situation? I don't know. But it's great for dry fire practice. I am able to point shoot pretty quick now and it helps with draw practice (empty gun...check 3 times) and when XD GETS OFF THEIR BUTTS AND GETS THE XD 45 ACP OUT!!! HINT...HINT.... I will buy it for that gun. It already has night sights.
Training is great for those things. If they help in a self defense situation...all the better. But I'm not planning on them. I'm working on point training skills and range work.

[mcarlson]

I have the Crimson Trace lasergrips on my Sig 229 40cal. I rarely use the laser at the range. The Sig 229 is my home defense gun (And the only gun my wife enjoys shooting).

The way I see it, it's an additional sighting tool that I can use. I fully intend to give myself every competitive advantage possible if the need arises. If that means using a laser, then fine!

That said, I would use crimson trace before I would lasermax. I wouldn't want to have to worry about pressing a button to use the laser, Lasergrips turns the laser on automatically.

I don't train using the laser, but if I have to get into a firefight, it's there as an extra tool for my benefit...

[MikeS.]

So who has the best price on the CT's?

[Menel]

When I play airsoft, the laser dot really scares people. You point it down a hallway, the jump back. They are afraid to venture back down that hallway.

I pin someone behind a filing cabinet, they scrunch up and freaking hide. Several people have mentioned how intimidating it is when we're back in the ready room after a skirmish.

I've got a lasermax on my bed side XD. Didn't need to be adjusted, was spot on just like Lasermax said it would be.