Lasers or not?

[jeepinbanditrider]

Originally Posted by jblakk

An important thing to remember about lasers is the intimidation factor. There is something that terrifies people about a laser dot on there chest.

Just putting in my 2 cents. Been conteplating this decision for a while myself.

Do you have any real experience with this? I don't and I'm seriously asking.

The only place I have seen people be scared of lasers is the movies and we all know how realistic those are.

[lostone1413]

Originally Posted by jeepinbanditrider

Do you have any real experience with this? I don't and I'm seriously asking.

The only place I have seen people be scared of lasers is the movies and we all know how realistic those are.

That is the only place you will see it.

[Menel]

Originally Posted by jeepinbanditrider

Do you have any real experience with this? I don't and I'm seriously asking.

The only place I have seen people be scared of lasers is the movies and we all know how realistic those are.

It definitely freaks out a lot of people when playing airsoft... As well as myself when other people sweep a laser near me

[synchro]

I have first hand experience in a 2 day low/no light class and competitions with and without lasers. There were 2 guys in my class that worked for crimson trace and had lasers. I had night sites on my XD and the one guy from crimson trace had (I think) an 1911 with laser grips. The people in the class that did not have night sites or lasers were no where close to as fast drawing and firing and not even vaguely as accurate as those that had them. The people that had lasers and would otherwise have been slow were able to be faster because of the laser. The two people in the class that were on target and always the fastest were myself and one of the crimson trace guys and he was ALWAYS more accurate. with the other crimson trace guy right behind me. No matter how hard I tried I could not beat him. He was always that split second faster than me. Granted some of this could be general gun handling skill, but for the most part when I am in my zone, I am darn fast and darn accurate. no luck. When the one guy didn't use the laser, I beat him every time. After watching the two of them go through the class for two 10 hour days, it had to the be the lasers, i am convinced of that. So one of things they told me about training with a laser if you have to always assume the laser will not come on. if it does, then bonus. You have to work on the basics just like any other shooting you want to do. Have a great default stance and be able to draw and fire well without the laser. The laser just speeds things up, they said.

So do I own lasers? On 2 of my guns I do. I have not gotten one for my XD yet just because I do not have the money right now and I really like rubber grips I have on my xd and am scared that if I buy the crimson trace grips it will change my grip. The lasermax is not an option, in my opinion. it is an extra step to turn it on and off. You have to be able to have discipline when you turn on the laser and the lasermax just is not conducive to that from my experience. Plus I like my Don's guide rod.

Your mileage may vary of course. Just remember, practise like you do not have it.

[Maximum1]

CrimsonTrace Laser Grips...TOO SPENDY Rather spend the money on additional mags and more ammo.

[agmed]

I've always thought lasers a liability as
- they telegraph your location (think smoke or dust in the air)
- are another thing to break
- are an additional complexity to your training/aiming task
- and add little to your shooting ability.

I'm sure lasers have their place, but I suspect it takes a fair amount of training to integrate them into your overall strategy.

Absolutely get a good set of tritium night sights and a bright tactical light (gun mounted or support hand, pick your poison). Practice in dimly lit conditions. I found with the night sights, accuracy was pretty much the same if the target was barely visible vs fully lit. (after all, we use Silhouette targets)

Under stress you will revert to the most frequent way you've trained, so train one way to aim. I'd worry about the delay of deciding whether to use the laser or not. Then suppose you go for the laser and it fails; more delay. My Sig's Tijicons are 12 years old and it's just now getting on time to think about relensing them (except I think I'm going to switch to Heine straight 8's anyway)

I would hope the Crimson Trace Factory team members were slightly faster with the lasers, after all that was their job right? Us mere mortals likely have less time to devote to training so KISS.

I really like the TLR-1 On my XD45. Midway has a sale on them for $95 through May 31 MidwayUSA - Streamlight TLR-1 Tactical Illuminator Flashlight White LED with Batteries (2 123A Lithium) Fits Picatinny or Glock-Style Rails Aluminum Matte

I have a support hand Surefire with a wrist lanyard to use with my Sig. Remember that properly used, bright light is a tactical weapon. Hit the BG with the light, then shift position.

But, if you really like them, they won't hurt and its fun to watch them dancing all over the target in the next lane between shots.

cheers and good shooting

[JoshXD40]

I like them both, but for the best usabililty I would go for the Crimson Trace. Just for the fact that the button is at your finger and you don't have to fondle around to find it. My friend just bought a XD 40SC and I got him a CT for it and he loves it. Like said by some Laser's should be just a reference point or helper. Don't put your lifes trust in them. Range time makes a big difference in how you react to a life threating situation. If you do the research about how many officer involved shootings with and without laser's, the ones with the laser's had a higher hit ratio. JMO

[Super Trucker]

Get the CT grips and enjoy them. Most of the "experts" here that are saying they are bad more than likely can not afford them.

[GlockConvert]

THis is a great thread and lots of good opinions. I can afford them and I don't have them. I am going to put one on my AUG (when I get it) because I have crap vision in my right eye and if I had to shoot the aug right handed I would have to cant it down so the ejection port is pointing at the ground.

So other then in movies, how are you going to get the guy who is assaulting you to take his eyes off of you and look down at his chest? You likely won't... If you shine it in his eyes, it may work, but otherwise I doubt it.

I'm actually starting to shift my staunch old codger anti laser position a little. In limited applications (like having to shoot from around cover where you can't get a good sight picture, shooting around a shield if you're a cop...) there may be some utility. Generally though, I'm suspicious. I work with a lot of gear heads who are constantly looking for a hardware solution to a software problem. Most people would be better off focusing on fundamentals, practise and training then depending on a laser. Some of my students with aging eyes, folks with small wheel guns... have often found the lasers worthwile..

John Farnam, who I teach with, is actually using an internal laser on an XD40. Even he is dabbling...

[rmarcustrucker]

any gun I have that can use CT I'll buy. it's another tool. I train with sights, laser and point shooting. realistic training at under 25 feet it's not that important. great for dry firing and helping others (mom, aunt) learn target acquisition.
I'm for using all tools at my disposal. I have CT on my two taur(I) and wish they had it for my third. I'm waiting for XD45 to come out and might purchase a second 9mm subcompact because pt111 doesn't have CT laser. (probably a xd9 subcompact or glock 26)
I'm also into good night sights and good lights, though with most i've practiced with hand held tatical lights.
also done airsoft and simunitions training with moving real targets. Thats where laser can help, like others said. Once you have target, you can keep pointed and make radio or phone call.