Texas Jury Clears Man Who Shot Suspected Burglar in the Back, Killed 2

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HOUSTON -- A grand jury here Monday cleared a Pasadena, Texas, man in the shooting deaths of two suspected burglars as they left his neighbor's house -- a case that stirred a national debate over whether he was a vigilante or a hero. Joe Horn, 62, shot the men on Nov. 14 after he called authorities and declared his intention to open fire on the suspects with his 12-gauge shotgun. The... [Los Angeles Times, via gunpolicy.org ]

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[TexicanKid]

As pro-gun and pro-self defense as I am, I dislike the "Castle Law", especially when it covers a guy who shot two criminals in the back for stealing a neighbor's property.

Now, yes, the criminals deserved no better, but in thinking of the criminals' families (mom, dad, siblings, etc...), the grief they will feel forever far outweighs the value of the property which was in jeopardy (which didn't even belong to the shooter).

Please, no one hail this guy as a hero; he's a backshooter, no better. No different than Bob Ford or Oswald, just dirt.

[av8_r22]

Originally Posted by TexicanKid

As pro-gun and pro-self defense as I am, I dislike the "Castle Law", especially when it covers a guy who shot two criminals in the back for stealing a neighbor's property.

Now, yes, the criminals deserved no better, but in thinking of the criminals' families (mom, dad, siblings, etc...), the grief they will feel forever far outweighs the value of the property which was in jeopardy (which didn't even belong to the shooter).

Please, no one hail this guy as a hero; he's a backshooter, no better. No different than Bob Ford or Oswald, just dirt.

I think you ought to read more into the facts of the story before you make statements such as this.

[TexicanKid]

Originally Posted by av8_r22

I think you ought to read more into the facts of the story before you make statements such as this.

This article is not my first experience with this story. I live in Texas ans recall watching the news when they played the recorded 911 call when this happened. The guy was pushing the boundaries of self defense big time. The operator telling him to stay inside and him saying he was going to go out and shoot them.

Give the recording a listen if you haven't yet.

[XDConvert9mm]

Originally Posted by TexicanKid

As pro-gun and pro-self defense as I am, I dislike the "Castle Law", especially when it covers a guy who shot two criminals in the back for stealing a neighbor's property.

Now, yes, the criminals deserved no better, but in thinking of the criminals' families (mom, dad, siblings, etc...), the grief they will feel forever far outweighs the value of the property which was in jeopardy (which didn't even belong to the shooter).

Please, no one hail this guy as a hero; he's a backshooter, no better. No different than Bob Ford or Oswald, just dirt.

I'm kind of conflicted on this whole story myself.

One thing I am NOT conflicted on is the Castle Doctrine. In regards to the statement you made above about the criminal's family's, the people who should have thought of the families and loved ones and their grief and loss are those that are committing the acts that put them in this position IMO. And you can take it to the bank that I don't care one little bit for the argument that they were doing what they had to do to survive as Illegal Immigrants.

Would I do what Joe Horne did? No. If it were my own house? Pretty sure I would. There is no duty to retreat here in GA, thank God. I'm delighted that I have the legal backup to protect what I went out and worked my butt off to get from those that either find it easier to take what I worked for or those that are here illegally in the first place and don't feel that they have a better option than to become thieves.

If your argument is to think first of the criminal's family's grief then my suggestion would be to stop investing in firearms and to invest more in insurance for your possessions against those that feel they need to steal it more than you needed to work for it. YMMV.

[av8_r22]

Originally Posted by TexicanKid

The operator telling him to stay inside and him saying he was going to go out and shoot them.

• He never said on the phone that he was going outside to kill them, as was sometimes reported. In fact, he even said that he did NOT want to shoot them. He said he was going outside to see where they were going, and taking his shotgun along for protection.
• The men (at least one) moved TOWARDS Horn before he shot them
• The men were shot at a distance LESS THAN 15 FEET and IN HORN'S YARD.

Now. The guy obviously made a bad decison to go outside and try to determine where the criminals were and in which direction they were going. But, that was a bad decision, not a crime.

Once outside, he was presented with a situation where two men he had observed wielding a crow bar and committing burglary were in his yard, less than 15 feet away, on his property, moving towards him.

In that situation, regardless of how I came to be in that particular situation, I would shoot too.

Below are two excepts from the article linked above:

"He had expressed remorse about the shootings from the outset, and claimed that he was surprised when he ventured outside and saw how close the men were to him."

"a plainclothes detective who witnessed some of what took place later told investigators that the men did not stop when a visibly nervous Horn pointed a shotgun in their direction, and that at least one man appeared to be moving toward Horn when Horn fired."

[TexicanKid]

From the article:

"He had expressed remorse about the shootings from the outset, and claimed that he was surprised when he ventured outside and saw how close the men were to him.

Ballistics tests suggested that at least one of the men had been shot in the back, raising questions about Horn's story."

From every account I read, the perps were shot in the back (for stealing a 3rd party's property).

Now I agree had they approached Horn or had they been stealing his property, maybe he would have been justified. But the man sort of threw himself into another person's business and backshot two bad guys.

Is that murder? As John Wayne said in Rio Bravo, "What would you call it?" (And in referencing someone shot in the front.)

I don't care that they dropped charges against the shooter; after all, the perps were scum. I'm just saying I disapprove of his style. And it looks bad to all of us gun owners when this kind of story gets splashed across the nation; not a good self defense example.

And as far as "investing in insurance instead of firearms" (from two posts above), I'd argue that I'm probably of better temperament to carry a firearm than Horn. I stopped a violent situation in which three perps were attacking a family member on my front lawn and did it without squeezing off a round, and I had a lot more emotional stake (and probably justification) in busting a cap than Horn did.

[av8_r22]

Originally Posted by TexicanKid

From every account I read, the perps were shot in the back (for stealing a 3rd party's property).

Now I agree had they approached Horn or had they been stealing his property, maybe he would have been justified. But the man sort of threw himself into another person's business and backshot two bad guys.

Is that murder? As John Wayne said in Rio Bravo, "What would you call it?" (And in referencing someone shot in the front.)

I don't care that they dropped charges against the shooter; after all, the perps were scum. I'm just saying I disapprove of his style. And it looks bad to all of us gun owners when this kind of story gets splashed across the nation; not a good self defense example.

And as far as "investing in insurance instead of firearms" (from two posts above), I'd argue that I'm probably of better temperament to carry a firearm than Horn. I stopped a violent situation in which three perps were attacking a family member on my front lawn and did it without squeezing off a round, and I had a lot more emotional stake (and probably justification) in busting a cap than Horn did.

Once again, I recommend you read.. and PROCESS.. the reports of the incident before you start forming opinions.

The police officer on scene confirms that they came at him and angled away as/right before he shot.

They were in his yard, 10-15 feet away, coming at him. The guy turned away as or right before he shot.

Read the fukcing story.

The man didn't chase them down and shoot them. Why can't you understand that?

[TexicanKid]

Originally Posted by av8_r22

Once again, I recommend you read.. and PROCESS.. the reports of the incident before you start forming opinions.

The police officer on scene confirms that they came at him and angled away as/right before he shot.

They were in his yard, 10-15 feet away, coming at him. The guy turned away as or right before he shot.

Read the fukcing story.

The man didn't chase them down and shoot them. Why can't you understand that?

Hey, **** YOU and your attitude!!!

[eric_t12]

wow, chill....

both of you. take it easy.


i'd rather have a shot criminal than a broke neighbor who cannot afford to replace the things that were stolen (what if it was his car? can't get to work... what if it was his case of documents like SS cards, etc that lead to his stolen identity?)

sorry, a injured/dead criminal is always better than a harmed (physically or financially) good person.