xd's double action?

[T Money]

Am I the only one who thinks these are not really applicable terms for these types of weapons?

They make perfect sense when talking about revolvers. Do you have to pull back the hammer manually to fire? If yes, than single action. If no, then double.

But using this term on a weapon that automatically chambers a round and readies the firing mechanism with each shot is weird. Because as far as I can see, the only advantage of DA with a gun like the XD, is that you could drop the pin on the same round multiple times. And dry fire without cycling the slide. In my mind calling a semi-auto pistol like this SA implies you have to do something in between shots. That's not true in the case of the XD, Glock, etc..

Just my $.02

[zaphod beeblebrox]

The standard I've always seen is if pulling the trigger cocks the hammer/striker, it is DA. If the hammer/striker is cocked by the action of the slide and pulling the trigger only releases the hammer/striker, it is SA. If that is correct (and feel free to disagree), then the XD is SA, as is a 1911. Both are fully cocked by the slide, and the trigger is just a release. A Glock is kinda a hybrid, as the slide partially cocks it, but pulling the trigger completes the cocking and then releases the striker.

[escheue]

Some of you have it right. Glock is referred to as "double action", only because pulling the trigger partialy cocks the gun before releasing the striker. It can not double strike. With the slide cycling it is placed in a semi cocked condition. The XD has a fully cocked striker and only releases it on pulling the trigger and is indeed single action only. No Double strike. It is some times mistakenly called double action because the long take up of the standard trigger makes it feel like ie: The Glock. The M&P by Smith and Wesson is referred to on thier web sight as " Action: striker fired " it does indeed have have double strike capabillity as I have witnessed this first hand while shooting with my brother. Its his gun.

[wildman3030]

Originally Posted by T Money

Am I the only one who thinks these are not really applicable terms for these types of weapons?

I agree with you for what its worth.

[community]

welcome from Michigan

[leballistic]

what does springfield say it is?

[Palmguy]

Originally Posted by 1xdmshooter

The XD's are double action only.

What exactly is the second action?

I read somewhere that Ayoob refers to an XD-style trigger as "biomechanical double action" because it may have the feel of a DA trigger. It is not mechanically double action though. It is much, much closer in function to a single action trigger.

[Neoprofin]

The second action is pulling the striker back the remaining whatever amount of tension before it's released. It's not SA because pulling the trigger does more than releasing the firing pin, but it's really really really not DA because the slide must be racked before the gun will fire the first time. Unfortunately people insist on calling it one or the other.

From what the NRA Firearms instructor I was talking to explained, the only reason we're having this conversation at all is because the ATF doesn't understand how firearms work or they'd just say it's striker fired and leave the DA/SA conversation to something it actually applies to.

[xd.40nut]

How the XD Works
by Dick Metcalf

The XD design integrates classic autoloader mechanics with several distinctly unconventional features. The basic operating mechanism employs a familiar Browning-type cam-ramp, tilt-barrel operation with a captive dual-spring recoil guide assembly. The noncockable ignition mechanism is striker-fired and requires a partial rearward motion of the slide (approximately 3/4 inch) to cock the system and ready the trigger. If the gun is dry-fired, or in the event of a misfire, the trigger cannot accomplish a repeat strike until/unless the slide is racked. In external aspect, this system appears to operate (and feel) much like the familiar mechanism of a Glock, as does the hinged "Glock-like" trigger-safety lever that prevents rearward trigger movement unless depressed by the user's trigger finger. However, the actual operating mechanics of the two designs are greatly different.

The XD mechanism completely cocks (preloads) the spring-charged firing pin so that the only function provided by the trigger pull is to release the sear and fire the gun. By contrast, the Glock "Safe Action" only partly preloads the firing mechanism, and the trigger pull physically completes the cocking action as well as releasing the firing pin. The XD is therefore a true "single-action" trigger design because its trigger only performs one function--releasing the firing mechanism. The Glock is a true "double-action" trigger design in that its trigger contributes to the actual cocking of the mechanism as well as releasing it.

To describe the process in detail: After the XD slide travels rearward about 3/4 inch, the spring-loaded sear "captures" a cocking lug on the firing pin, holding the pin compressed fully to the rear against the pressure of the firing pin spring when the slide travels back forward (either after a short manual retraction of the slide or after the slide's full rearward travel in the firing cycle). A pull on the trigger then moves the trigger bar and firing pin safety lever linkages forward, depressing the sear and releasing the firing pin to fire the cartridge. The XD pistol may "feel" like a DAO (double action only) mechanism, but it is not. It acts like a DAO, but it isn't, mechanically. Springfield's official term for the mechanism is Ultra Safety Assurance Action Trigger System--or "USA Action" for short.

Another unique XD design aspect is the grip safety that prevents the gun's trigger from being squeezed unless it is fully depressed. The XD grip safety also freezes the slide. If the grip safety isn't down, you can't pull the trigger, and you can't pull the slide to the rear to load an empty chamber or clear a loaded chamber. You also can't lock the slide back on an empty gun, whether the magazine is in or out. Plus, there is a separate internal firing pin block that is deactivated only when the trigger is pressed all the way rearward to the point of striker release.

[xd.40nut]

HS2000 pistol has been developed by Croatian IM Metal company for Croatian army during late 1990s. Production of the 9mm HS2000 started in 1999, with the first pistols being delivered to the Croatian army the same year. In 2000 these pistols first appeared in the USA, initially imported under their original name. However, in late 2001 the Springfield Armory Company of Genseo, Illinois, became the sole importer of HS2000 pistols in USA. Springfield offers a slightly improved version of HS2000 as the Springfield XD (eXtreme Duty pistol), and by now these pistols (still made in Croatia) are available in a variety of sizes, calibers and finishes.
After several years of aggressive sales, these pistols gained good reputation and serious following among American shooters, and by now several police departments in USA either issue these pistols on regular basis or approve them for personal purchase by police officers.
The HS2000 is short-recoil operated, locked-breech pistol with a polymer frame. The barrel locks to the slide with a single large lug which engages the ejection port. Unlocking and locking is controlled by a cam-shaped lug which interacts with a steel insert pinned to the frame. If the insert becomes worn or damaged, any competent gunsmith can easily replace it. The dual return spring arrangement is of the captive type; when assembled, the front of a spring guide rod projects slightly forward from the front of the slide; Springfield advertising literature calls this a "muzzle protector", but the original text of patent WO02059539, published in August 01, 2002 and granted to the Croatian design team, describes the reason for this feature as to "enable firing the bullet when the pistol is pushed towards someone's back". This is "necessary" because HS2000, as almost any other modern pistol, has a disconnector safety that does not permit the release of the striker if the slide is not fully closed and locked to the barrel, and such situation can be easily encountered in circumstances described in the quote. The trigger is single-action, also described in the advertising literature as Ultra Safety Assurance system. The pistol is striker fired, with the firing pin cocking indicator made in the form of a pin which protrudes from the rear of the slide when the gun is cocked. There are no manual safeties on the HS2000, but several automatic safeties are present, such as a firing pin block, a trigger safety and a grip safety. The sights are fixed, with the rear being dovetailed to the slide. Current production pistols also have an integral accessory rail on the frame, below the barrel; early production pistol had no such feature. The double-stack magazines are made of steel and hold 15 rounds of 9mm ammunition for original HS2000 pistols. Magazine release buttons are duplicated on either side of the frame, at the base of the trigger guard. Croatian military issue pistols have a black finish, while commercial pistols may have either black or a "military green" frame with a black or polished steel slide. Commercial models are also available in "Compact" and "Tactical" versions, with barrel lengths of 76mm (3 inch) or 127mm (5 inch) respectively, and in a variety of calibers.

As always, Stay Safe