Slide jamming on reassembly and SA's responsibilities.

[rtavernetti]

The "quark" of the XD's slide jamming solid after reassembly was unknown to me until today when it happened. After searching the forum I am seeing that more and more people are stumbling on this as it happens to them. One could argue that it will likely happen to every owner at some point if they are unaware that having the guide spring not centered, or simply putting pressure on the ejection port with their hand when racking the slide back, will completely disable their XD on reassembly. Its like a secret surprise boobie trap that turns your gun into a paper weight. It even has its own youtube video now and term JSP (Jammed Slide Phenomenon)? Does Springfield have an obligation to share this with with its customers? Shouldn't it be in the manual? Should there be an advisory? I took the gun to three dealers who said they had never heard of this and had no idea what to do other than bang on it. Shouldn't the reps tell their dealers so they can educate their customers or at least know how to respond when it happens???

This seems like a major design flaw from a reliability stand point. Is/ should Springfield be doing anything to address this? Could they fix this by notching the barrel to capture the spring?

[mongoose33]

Originally Posted by rtavernetti

The "quark" of the XD's slide jamming solid after reassembly was unknown to me until today when it happened. After searching the forum I am seeing that more and more people are stumbling on this as it happens to them. One could argue that it will likely happen to every owner at some point if they are unaware that having the guide spring not centered, or simply putting pressure on the ejection port with their hand when racking the slide back, will completely disable their XD on reassembly. Its like a secret surprise boobie trap that turns your gun into a paper weight. It even has its own youtube video now and term JSP (Jammed Slide Phenomenon)? Does Springfield have an obligation to share this with with its customers? Shouldn't it be in the manual? Should there be an advisory? I took the gun to three dealers who said they had never heard of this and had no idea what to do other than bang on it. Shouldn't the reps tell their dealers so they can educate their customers or at least know how to respond when it happens???

This seems like a major design flaw from a reliability stand point. Is/ should Springfield be doing anything to address this? Could they fix this by notching the barrel to capture the spring?

Should they have something in the manual about this? Maybe. I'm a bit surprised that there aren't centering flanges or something on the slide that would cause the guide rod to automatically center, but maybe they'd get in the way of something.

If you have a stuck slide, try here:

Fix for Slide Stuck

[CHA-LEE]

Do we really need an Air Bag, Seat Belt, Warning, Helmet, or Law for everything that has the possibility of screwing up? I know it may be a new concept for some, but if you do something wrong there are usually consequences. If you pay attention and don't do a half ass job of putting it back together then it won't get into this failure mode. If you do end up in this locked up condition then that is a REALLY good lesson to pay attention to what you are doing next time. We are not talking about high precision assembly here either. This is basic stuff.

Sorry, but this falls in the "Why did this hammer let me hit my finger" category.

[Fastzntn]

The XD was my first handgun, and despite my "newness" I have never had an issue with the thing jamming up on reassembly, plus I'm pretty anal about cleaning, so I probably have had it field stripped for cleaning more than average.

Given this it sounds like people need to take more care to reassemble their gun correctly- it's not rocket science.

[Paragon]

No, field stripping is not rocket science, but I have other guns, and have never encountered this problem.

I understand that all guns have quirks. This is the XD's. I would think that it could be addressed by a simply putting it in the FAQ of SA's technical support web page. I think putting it in the manual is overkill.

[invssgt]

Originally Posted by rtavernetti

The "quark" of the XD's slide jamming solid after reassembly was unknown to me until today.....

This seems like a major design flaw from a reliability stand point. Is/ should Springfield be doing anything to address this? Could they fix this by notching the barrel to capture the spring?

The first I heard of this was with the 45's. We've had 40's % 9's around for five years, and never had it happen with them. I've never heard of the guns locking up while firing, so it's not a 'reliability issue' in the classic sense. SFA's responsibility is to engineer a spring/rod system that corrects this, perhaps along with changes to the bottom lug of the barrel- and to supply existing customers with the upgrade(s) that correct the problem.

Caveat Emptor.

[SteveW1958]

Originally Posted by invssgt

The first I heard of this was with the 45's. We've had 40's % 9's around for five years, and never had it happen with them. I've never heard of the guns locking up while firing, so it's not a 'reliability issue' in the classic sense. SFA's responsibility is to engineer a spring/rod system that corrects this, perhaps along with changes to the bottom lug of the barrel- and to supply existing customers with the upgrade(s) that correct the problem.

Caveat Emptor.

The early XD's did have a crescent cut in the barrel lug to keep the guide rod centered. This was removed in more recent production, presumably as a cost savings. If the guide rod is not in the correct position when you reassemble the firearm it takes much greater force to move the slide back. Personally if you are paying attention you will pick up on this before bad things happen. Unfortunately it seems some folks do not pay attention and use brute force to solve problems. Manufactures can not always design to the least common denominator as no products would ever be finished. Some understanding of how a product functions must be the responsibility of the end user. I am a manufactures service rep (unrelated field) and the stuff that some folks feel is necessary so that can't screw up is unbelievable. In my case these folks are trained professionals surgeons & nurses.

[invssgt]

Originally Posted by SteveW1958

The early XD's did have a crescent cut in the barrel lug to keep the guide rod centered. This was removed in more recent production, presumably as a cost savings. If the guide rod is not in the correct position when you reassemble the firearm it takes much greater force to move the slide back. Personally if you are paying attention you will pick up on this before bad things happen. Unfortunately it seems some folks do not pay attention and use brute force to solve problems. Manufactures can not always design to the least common denominator as no products would ever be finished. Some understanding of how a product functions must be the responsibility of the end user. I am a manufactures service rep (unrelated field) and the stuff that some folks feel is necessary so that can't screw up is unbelievable. In my case these folks are trained professionals surgeons & nurses.

If so, it was a cost savings that caused the end user problems. Manufacturers frequently cheapen their product and tell the consumer to go suck an egg when the predictable result of that cheapening occurs. We are after all talking about an imported plastic service pistol which probably costs SFA about a fourth of its retail price.

Conveying an 'understanding' of how firearms products 'function' is the express purpose of an owners manual. BTW I would have never guessed you were a 'manufacturer's service rep'...right. I am just an old cop and firearms instructor with an ingrained concern for supplying the troops with dependable equipment.

I stand by my earlier statement.

[rtavernetti]

Important thing to note here. You can agrue end user error to an extent by not squaring off the guide spring as this is how it was found. However what about racking the slide with your hand square over the center of the slide. The downward pressure of your hand on the ejector port will push the barrel down into the block resulting in the jam too. Is that user error?

With the spring off center yes it feels different as you start to pull it back but the second you can tell its too late. It will only give back into a tighter jam, not forward at that point.

The medical rep comment is an excellent analogy as medical equipment, like a defensive firearm, is intended to be used by people with widely varying experience under stressful and often distracting circumstances. Distracted by endorphins and bombarded by information even the most experienced people have been known to make seemingly careless mistakes. For this reason medical providers demand certain products be "idiot proof" within a reasonable margin. What determines that reasonable, or litigatable, margin is the level of training required by the end user. If a product has the potential to fail during the course of its expected use and no redundancy can be engineered by the manufacture to avoid this then training is generally provided by the rep to minimise the chance of such a failure.

A major marketing point of the XD is its idiot proof features and simple field stripping is one of them. Some people actually buy it because of perceived simplicity and reliability.

The reality is that very few, if any, of the people that buy these guns on impulse could ever really have their life placed in jeopardy by such a jam. Hence the liability for SA of such a flaw is dramatically overshadowed by the potential lost sales education on avoiding the flaw would cause. If you were marketing it to the military or SWAT than perhaps it would be different.

However I still think customers should have a right to know about this before they commit as to avoid the breach of the trust that occures if it happens to them and they learn SA had prior knowlage that was with heald.

[tec]

I find it interesting that you have been a forum member here since 2003, and am now just finding this out.......

As far as the "problem" just put the dang gun back together properly, then it's not a worry.


08-29-2008, 12:05 AM #1 rtavernetti
XDTalk Newbie

Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Davis, CA
Posts: 5


Slide jamming on reassembly and SA's responsibilities.
The "quark" of the XD's slide jamming solid after reassembly was unknown to me until today when it happened. After searching the forum I am seeing that more and more people are stumbling on this as it happens to them. One could argue that it will likely happen to every owner at some point if they are unaware that having the guide spring not centered, or simply putting pressure on the ejection port with their hand when racking the slide back, will completely disable their XD on reassembly. Its like a secret surprise boobie trap that turns your gun into a paper weight. It even has its own youtube video now and term JSP (Jammed Slide Phenomenon)? Does Springfield have an obligation to share this with with its customers? Shouldn't it be in the manual? Should there be an advisory? I took the gun to three dealers who said they had never heard of this and had no idea what to do other than bang on it. Shouldn't the reps tell their dealers so they can educate their customers or at least know how to respond when it happens???

This seems like a major design flaw from a reliability stand point. Is/ should Springfield be doing anything to address this? Could they fix this by notching the barrel to capture the spring?
Last edited by rtavernetti : 08-29-2008 at 02:28 PM.