Looking for XDm's at dealer cost?

[boricua9mm]

Originally Posted by dave421

It's impossible for any business to remain in business by selling all items at cost, regardless of $50/yr. memberships and inflated shipping prices. I know that there are a lot of companies that set up their pricing as Dealer Cost - X% depending upon the level of a particular merchant (i.e. Dealer Cost is $595 and Dealer gets 10% off, Stocking Dealer gets 20% off, Distributor gets 30% off, etc.). Regardless, the few prices I was actually able to see were pretty good. However, I wonder what's "behind the curtain". I'm sure the owners chose some of their top discounted items to display to non-members.

On Point has been running this way for most of the year. People said the same thing back in 2002 when On Point was selling guns for $20 over cost. "That can't be, they can't stay in business, etc." I might ad that On Point was one of the very first strictly online retailers, and the first retailer to have an inventory online that is consistently updated that draws off of a data feed from distribution. In fact, the distributors had to create such a data feed to fulfill this need. There's been lots of things said about On Point over the years. The rip-off artist comments have never been substantiated, hence why On Point is still in business.

Imagine this; you have 700 members that are paying $5/month to purchase items at cost, amounting to $3500/month, $42k a year, a very livable salary in today's economy. I'm not sure what the membership numbers are, but that's an educated guess. There are no big overhead costs to run that business model, because you have "just in time" inventory and share business space with other businesses, one of them being a UPS store. There are lots of advantages for both the business owner and the customer.

Customers get guns that are NIB, NBT (Never Been Touched), not something that has been fingered to death in a gun store case. The owners don't need to invest capital in guns, speculating what people are going to buy. The $5/month fee isn't for everybody. Most people buy a gun, shoot it once, and put it in a closet somewhere for the next 40 years. The $5/month fee makes sense for people who are shooters. People who are constantly buying guns,ammo, and shooting accessories. If one plans to buy a gun and doesn't actually shoot recreationally, it doesn't make sense to be a member.

As for what IS and what IS NOT dealer cost, there is no real baseline standard. Distributors like RSR have sliding scales that vary depending on the amount of volume the dealer does, and they sometimes even offer better pricing on certain brands that the dealers have had success with. For those of you who think it is NOT dealer cost, what is your source? If you can get the guns cheaper than On Point's VIP pricing, I'm sure the online shooting community would love to know ASAP!

I don't work for On Point, although I did from 2002-2004. I don't get any kickbacks to defend his business, but I believe in the perseverance of truth. It is run by my best friend, whom I met at the University of Florida. I don't have any vested interest on whether you pay them your membership fees or not. On the other hand, it is only fair to them to clear the air here. The only connection I have at this point is that I've collaborated with them on a series of gun review videos, as well as providing video/photo coverage of SHOT Show in '07.

Again, if you don't buy shooting supplies regularly, you probably won't buy enough to save $60 over the course of a year. I'd much rather give the guy my $5, because I actually buy lots of ammo, mags, guns, etc. throughout the year. My other choice is to go pay full blown retail someplace else, and I'd be guaranteed to overpay by at least $60 over the course of a year.

It might work for you, or it might not. That's for the consumer to decide.

[Soup]

I can't seem to get to the pricing for other firearms besides the XDM? It keeps kicking me back to the "buy membership" page, I assume intentionally.

Could someone with a membership shoot me a PM with the price on these CX4s? Definitely worth buying a membership if the price is substantially less than my local dealer.

SKU: BRX49220M
SKU: BRX4P915

Thanks a lot!

[ARin]

dealer cost for xdm black, is $513.33 before shipping from RSR group. 546.38 from davidsons

[dave421]

Ok, I never said anything about them being a "rip-off artist." What I said is true unless they have a membership numbering WELL into the thousands. $3500/month wouldn't even pay the rent on any decent commercial office let alone a warehouse large enough to stock all of the things that are listed on their website. Then you have to add it utilities, that custom software that you talked about, salaries, benefits, insurance, advertising, cost of the site, etc. Money is being made somewhere.

They also say "wholesale cost" which is pretty much what I was talking about before. Typically, wholesale is one of your smallest discounts. I'd imagine these guys are at least 1 level above that with their distributors. I'll tell you what, since you're a member, pm me the price on Item #27 on page 8 (GSG-5 Dealer Cost - Buy Guns at Dealer Cost - Only at On Point Firearms - Home of the GSG-5 MP5 - Springfield Springfield) for the Springfield handguns (XD9 Service, black, 16 round mags, standard sights).


Again, this has nothing to do with whether they're offering good (even great) pricing. I just don't like when buzzwords are used to make people think they're getting something that they're not. I may actually join but I'd really like to know some real prices first. Most of the stuff they display has no bearing on me (i.e. Speer Gold Dot... how much is 9mm or .45 or ANY common round? The price on .454 Casull doesn't tell me much).

*edit* actually just checked the price on .45 GAP Speer GD (first one I found elsewhere). They're $2.70 higher per box than Natchez. So how much can you REALLY save here?

[ForTehNguyen]

wish I could buy the Class III H&K G36s they are selling there

[boricua9mm]

Originally Posted by dave421

Ok, I never said anything about them being a "rip-off artist." What I said is true unless they have a membership numbering WELL into the thousands. $3500/month wouldn't even pay the rent on any decent commercial office let alone a warehouse large enough to stock all of the things that are listed on their website. Then you have to add it utilities, that custom software that you talked about, salaries, benefits, insurance, advertising, cost of the site, etc. Money is being made somewhere.

Sorry, I did not mean to infer that you called him a rip-off artist, but there have been those in the past who have made such claims, unsubstantiated of course.

Rent on a "decent" commercial office: This cost is split between three businesses that share common space. He doesn't need a warehouse b/c everything is ordered from distribution AFTER you place the order. This is what I mean by "just in time" inventory.

Utilities: Not a significant issue when split between three businesses.

Custom Software: This was programmed by the business owner. Any operational cost at the ISP level is minimal. He DOES have to pay a little more for the commerce feature of the site, but not an overbearing cost.

Salaries, Benefits, Insurance: On Point is a one man operation at the moment. He only needs to pay himself at the end of the day. He has no significant inventory to require any sizeable amount of insurance. Benefits? He's probably covered by his wife's company benefits (health, dental, vision)

Advertising: The owner has a degree from the University of Florida in Marketing. I've also helped him over the years doing various projects. There's practically NO money spent on marketing. On Point has benefitted from the creativity found within.

Where's the money being made? I don't expect to be able to convince anybody, but the money comes from membership fees. Shooters in 2008 don't want to pay one yellow nickel over dealer cost b/c that's pretty much what CDNN sells everything for. I rarely see an internet posting asking about prices that doesn't mention CDNN. On Point has acknowledged that and created a business model that can make money, and keep customers paying what they want.

There are those who will chime in here and post dealer costs on items and compare them to On Point's VIP pricing. Again, dealer pricing is not equal across the board. Fact of the matter is, some dealers have to pay more for some things than others. Then there's the even more special pricing that comes from stocking dealer programs, etc. Some people get free shipping, some not. As you can see, there is not only ONE number for everyone. Dealer costs are a sliding scale.

I have no interest in posting their VIP pricing here on the web, because that's what I pay my $5 for!

[ForTehNguyen]

I might do a membership for a month to see what kind of price difference there is. If its substantial an ongoing membership is easily worthwhile hell even saving $20 on an item pays for 4 months of memberships

[seattleducati]

Originally Posted by boricua9mm

I have no interest in posting their VIP pricing here on the web, because that's what I pay my $5 for!

That's a crap response.

And, personally, I don't like it when a business does this sort of thing. They should post their prices, then in order to check out, you have to get the membership...it's not hard to do, but then again, that would take away from the owners $5 a month per person that he's getting.

[ForTehNguyen]

I bought a membership to snoop out prices. I can already pay for two months of membership on 3 box of 20 round Hornady TAP ammo for my AR Ive been meaning to get anyways vs normal prices.

Geez I still want that G36

[boricua9mm]

Originally Posted by seattleducati

That's a crap response.

...and THIS response from YOU is supposed to be a heavyweight contender??

Originally Posted by seattleducati

And, personally, I don't like it when a business does this sort of thing.

Please be sure to write a letter to the Sam's Clubs and Costcos of the world, letting them know how you feel, and how this business model will result in their ultimate demise.

Originally Posted by seattleducati

They should post their prices, then in order to check out, you have to get the membership...it's not hard to do, but then again, that would take away from the owners $5 a month per person that he's getting.

You may not be aware of how retail business works, but there exists something called MAP pricing. That's a Minimum Advertised Price that a retail business has to abide by, or else risk losing their ability to sell items of a particular manufacturer. This isn't some new trick devised to get your money. SIG and Rock River Arms are two companies that use a MAP pricing structure, and that's just two off the top of my head. On Point has no duty to show everyone in the world what its dealer cost is. One is paying for access to that pricing structure when one becomes a member. Don't like it? I guess you can always go out and get your own FFL. Then you can do whatever you ant with the confidential pricing given to you by distributors. Or, I guess you can always go with the "Support your local gun store" argument and pay $150 over cost for a middle-of-the-road firearm.


ForTehNguyen just got his membership and he's already reporting his savings. Like I said, it makes sense for someone who is a shooter, not someone who just wants to kick tires and talk to the owner for 2 hours about what guns they already have and what guns they want to buy. Time is money and I don't have a huge surplus of either. I'm not at all offended that On Point has taken the same stance.