Oh man... hectic night last night....

[Delija]

Originally Posted by one-eyed-fatman

This was the time to put your talents to work and stop the threat. By not taking control at this time you just gave him more room to continue playing Mr. Butthead. You escalated the situation by doing nothing when you could have done something.

I agree.

I've written here before that I owned a bar in NY and talked my way out of an uncountable number of fights. Usually between others, but a few where I was myself threatened. In eight years of this only once did I ever actually use physical force.

True, you shouldn't have gotten out of the car. But you did and to make matter worse your wife did and took your baby out too. So maybe I don't understand the sequence of events correctly, but this is how it appears to me:

You were blocked into the parking space so when the guy was NOT in your face you still could not just drive away

You had been been assaulted.

You were threatened with deadly force. He told you he was getting a gun and was going to "teach you a lesson" (or some words to that effect).

You had the ability (training) to physically restrain him without using deadly force after being threatened.

You had reasonable cause to believe you were in imminent danger of having a gun used against you.

By letting him proceed to look for his gun, you were letting a non-lethal encounter possibly escalate to a lethal encounter. You had a way of stopping it.

There are very very few instances in which I think using force is not preventable (verbal judo), or is justified. This sounds like one of the very rare exceptions.

In the end, almost all threats are just bluster. Like this one thankfully turned out to be. But you can't count on the odds being in your favor even when they are. Someone threatened you with a gun. He may not have said he was going to shoot you, but he said he was getting a gun and he said you need to be "taught a lesson" (or words to that effect). That is reasonable cause in my book to take this as a very serious threat. He was certainly not getting his gun to show you his new hard chrome finish or night sights.

I'm glad that it worked out, and I credit you for not yielding to the temptation of either brandishing your gun or even mentioning it. That was wise and in all likelihood saved you a lot of trouble you didn't need. But I just cannot understand how you could let this guy go for his gun when you were boxed in and had the ability to stop him.

Peace,
D.

[reesegr]

LUCKY...I probably would have acted in a similar fasion....but as usual...hindsight is 20/20 and morally...(IMHO) you were 100% ok...maybe 99.8% correct...legally...well...its probably alot less. With that said, I think its a great thread, cuz it can teach us all a better (legally speaking) way of handling situations like the one u had, cuz i'm sure the chances are that it could happen to any and all of us, at least to a greater probability than say...winning the damn powerball.

Ok..well really happy that you and your family are ok!!

[oldmantod]

I can tell you a few things, but first, realize that I am 5'6", not terribly intimidating or not terribly sure of my figting skills, I have not practiced Tsung Soo Do in about three years (setting the stage).

First - I am laid back, I probably wouldn't have thrown my hands up (note that I say probably, one never knows what they are going to do and different things can affect whether I would have done that or not). But had I did, I would then be in a situation.

Second - I am fairly certain that I disagree with stay in the vehicle, I think you limit your options greatly by staying in the vehicle, as well, you bring the trouble to you and yours if you do that.

Third - I can tell you this (and I said this already in a recent thread of what would you do) he woulda never got that close to me. When I got out fo the car and saw he was mental, I would have reached, broke the thumb break and loosened the 40 or the 9 for a quick draw. Had he gotten within arms reach, I woulda pulled, I will not let somebody inside my comfort zone, no matter what.

I can say that my verbalization would have been similar, informing Senior Stoopid that he doesn't want to do what he is doing and that while he may be cool and whatnot and a real tough guy, he just doesn't want to break into my zone of comfort.

Second guessing you, I am just too old and laid back (35 years) to verbally joust with some fuqnozzle like that in a parking lot, however light the fire or intimidate myself or my wife (that woulda been the fuse, at that point I woulda shown him that I am giving my wife my gun so I could give it a run mano-a-mano).

This dude was a real jackass, you did nothing wrong. Carry on...

T

[hobocircus]

That guy was dirty and needed to be "cleaned"



I would have hosed him down with this and went to Wal-Mart.

[Delija]

Originally Posted by oldmantod

First - I am laid back,

Second - I am fairly certain that I disagree with stay in the vehicle,

Third - I can tell you this (and I said this already in a recent thread of what would you do) he woulda never got that close to me. .....I would have reached, broke the thumb break and loosened the 40 or the 9 for a quick draw. Had he gotten within arms reach, I woulda pulled, I will not let somebody inside my comfort zone, no matter what.

I woulda shown him that I am giving my wife my gun so I could give it a run mano-a-mano).

This dude was a real jackass, you did nothing wrong. Carry on...

T

Please excuse the editing...I didn't see any reason to re-post the entire thing.

I don't know if this is supposed to be serious or is just a joke.
You claim to be "laid back" but you think staying in the car was a mistake and getting out and into a face to face confrontation was better? "Laid back".

"he woulda never got that close to me" - you would have had your hand on your gun before he got close. "laid back"

"Had he gotten within arms reach, I woulda pulled, I will not let somebody inside my comfort zone, no matter what." - speaks for itself..."laid back".

"I woulda shown him that I am giving my wife my gun so I could give it a run mano-a-mano)." - so you would draw your gun, and then give it to your wife and then fought with the guy "mano-a-mano"? Very "laid back".

"you did nothing wrong. Carry on..." Well, I don't think he did anything terribly wrong. I think he could have handled things differently and maybe better, but he certainly didn't do anything along the lines of what you claim you would have done. So what are you saying? That his way was the right way, but your way, which is very different, and very aggressive (yet somehow 'laid back") is also the right way?

I guess/hope it's a joke, but it's hard to tell. One of the problems with this medium....you can't see if someone is laughing when they write things or if they are dead serious.

"laid back"? LOL...

Peace,
D.

[poonstang90lx]

Originally Posted by Vtwin

I think it's hard to be in a situation and then later ask for exceptence or opinions. You did what you thought was right.

This shouldn't turn into a slam Lucky thread, but instead turn into hey, you could've done this or hey, next time try and do this...

We should be here to help the others out..

Well said.

[oldmantod]

Let me address each one of these..

I don't know if this is supposed to be serious or is just a joke.
You claim to be "laid back" but you think staying in the car was a mistake and getting out and into a face to face confrontation was better? "Laid back". - exiting the car is not an action to move to the confratation, it is a move to give you at least some mobility and also remove you from the vehicle that had the wife and the child, at that point you need to weigh whether you let captain fignuts trap you in the vehicle with limited mobility or do you exit the vehicle (which can be construed as a sign of aggression) and open your options up.

"he woulda never got that close to me" - you would have had your hand on your gun before he got close. "laid back" - corect, hand on gun behind back, not displaying ensuring that an attacker does not get to personal space. I let somebody get six inches from my nose and a haymaker is thrown, what good was a firearm and on top of that, wouldn't it suck for the firearm that was used to abduct your wife and child to be the one that came from your hip??

"Had he gotten within arms reach, I woulda pulled, I will not let somebody inside my comfort zone, no matter what." - speaks for itself..."laid back". - Yes it does, any training will tell you that you must draw the line, with that in mind, does your duty to retreat include putting you in what is probably a position that is somewhat limited (back in the vehicle)??

"I woulda shown him that I am giving my wife my gun so I could give it a run mano-a-mano)." - so you would draw your gun, and then give it to your wife and then fought with the guy "mano-a-mano"? Very "laid back". - Are you married?? When is the last time somebody gave your wife lip? Did you stand for it?? Is it somebody else's right to speak like that to your wife??

"you did nothing wrong. Carry on..." Well, I don't think he did anything terribly wrong. I think he could have handled things differently and maybe better, but he certainly didn't do anything along the lines of what you claim you would have done. So what are you saying? That his way was the right way, but your way, which is very different, and very aggressive (yet somehow 'laid back") is also the right way? - not sure what you are saying here.

I guess/hope it's a joke, but it's hard to tell. One of the problems with this medium....you can't see if someone is laughing when they write things or if they are dead serious.

"laid back"? LOL... - laid back yes, just as in the other thread that was started, somebody cuts in front of me, I just go on my merry old way, somebody traps me with my family there, things are a little different.

Peace,
D.

Peace,
T.

[Haleakala40]

Lucky,


Considering the situation and the heat of the moment as well
as the sheer chaos of all that adrenalin pumping through all
concerned...I think you showed remarkable constraint.

The WTF gesture is something I would be guilty of as well...
human nature is not something to easily change..especially in a heated
moment such as this. Granted now that it is in the past, the WTF gesture
might be better avoided...I think we all see that.

But honestly...whoever thinks that a stupid situation would
become such a mess ?!?

This A$$hole you happened to encounted sounds to me to be living
on borrowed time...how many times can a person get away with such
behavior and survive? It seems obvious to me that this person was already going to "snap" and you just happened to be in the wrong spot to encounter him. I don't think it would have mattered who it was...he was ready to go off.
Like I said, you showed remarkable restraint...more that I think I
could have in that situation. Anyone who says you did wrong...needs
to walk in your shoes and see what it was like from "first" perspective
before they can honestly say otherwise.

The main most important aspect of your relating this situation to us should be.. NO ONE GOT HURT. And thankfully every single one of us can and SHOULD learn from this situation. It's not only our actions that affect siuations such as these...but also our re-actions.

Lucky....YOU DID GOOD. Thanks for the very important post...I have learned something from it...by posting your experience it is invaluable to all of us to understand we are not perfect...none of us.
But, We all do the best we can.
And continue to endeavor to be better and do better.

[RLLOVER]

For the most part you handled it allot better than I would have once it had escelated to the level it had.

I have a 16" zone infront of my face that you are either my dentist giving me mouth to mouth or about to loose the use of a knee and maybe some toofers if you enter it in the wrong frame of mind. Yes I have anger issues. 25 years of playing hockey causes some instincts to develop into instant reactions without really thinking.

That being said the wife should be back in the car with the baby, doors locked calling 911, but you really shouldn't have been blocked in in the first place.

I always watch jerks that may decide to follow me to vent their frustrations at their life. I've called the police before and met up with the closest cruiser to rectify the situation. One nice man didn't have a license registration or insurance. He went to jail.

I only got -2 for the wife out of the truck not calling the cops and being unaware that a person you just expresssed yourself to was following you, but you already knew those had been bad ideas.

I give you a +10 for not taking his head off at the neck when he came up on you.

So all and all I got you at a B.

Don't Monday morning quarterbacks suck.

Since I got my permit I intentionally work to avoid confrontations. I stay in the right lane follow traffic and let everyone and their brother tailgate cut me off and whatever. If there is a problem I find alternate ways to solve it. Like calling the police and having them meet me.

Bottom line, stay moving and stay in the truck, and nice job.

[jenni_goes_grrr]

Wrong name, sorry I posted on my girls name.