Concealed Carry Question

[Joeywhat]

IIRC you are allowed to take your weapon into an establishment where liquor is NOT the main source of income...so a bar is out, but a bar and grill is in...but I wouldn't be sitting at the bar...For these types of restaurants think Applebee's and Chili's...not a bar that happens to have some tables and serves fried food.

This is for MI, not sure of other state laws.

I find most the info regarding CPL's and how the laws should be interpreted online. I most use a site called mcrgo.org. It is specifically for MI firearms laws. The include a section called "ask the lawyer", where a lawyer interprets the laws for you. There is also a Q&A section where questions can be asked regarding some gray areas in the laws. That is where I found the restaurant info.

I should note that in MI whether you are allowed to carry in an establishment that serves liquor is still a very large gray area...I would be on the safe side and not carry in most places that serve alcohol...

That site also lists all teh businesses that have put a "no carry" rule in place. The list is not definitive, but it's nice to know about. You are allowed to add businesses that are not on the list.

[Allstop]

In Minnesota you can carry in bars and rest. You can drink and carry but your BAC limit is .04

[aggiedave05]

Originally Posted by jnclement

Depends on what state you live in. There isn't a national concealed carry law. In Texas, that would be a misdemeanor at best, and a potential felony. Been a while since I took my class, all I remember is don't carry if you drink.

You would either remember incorrect or had a good southern baptist minister teaching your class. No offense.

In Texas there is no legal limit. That does not mean the limit is 0 though. I would never drink anywhere near the .08 threshold for DUI, but don't think there is anything wrong with a beer at a happy hour and then getting in your vehicle where your gun is.

I hope this isn't a no no, but here is a link from texaschlforum:

TexasCHLforum.com • View topic - going out for dinner and having one drink

[ducttape2]

aggiedave05 - thanks for the link. That was a good discussion. I also appreciate the feedback from the others in the forum.

I was doing some more research today. Other than the reference to "21 and over" areas in a bar, the Washington (my home state) law is silent on the issue of alcohol and ccw. Given the responsibility bestowed on a person who carries and the degree of specificity in other sections of the law I thought this was an interesting void. They spend more ink on talking about shot gun barrel length.

I have also started looking into less-than-leathal solutions in times when carry is not an option. The Kimber life-saver thing looks interesting.

[drgonzo]

In MO, there's no carry in bars. Restaurants are OK, even those that serve EtOH; there must be some legal distinction between bars and restauarants but I don't recall it right now. My thought process is: "Am I going out to dinner or for a drink?" and then I decide accordingly.

Unloaded gun + intoxicated person = misdemeanor

Loaded gun + intoxicated person = felony

Once I was BS'ing with the rangemaster where I shoot and he told me that he's had two guys over the years come down to the range obviously drunk and had the police come to deal with it. Makes me wonder about the thought processes of a person that would get loaded and have the bright idea to DRIVE down to the range and handle a LETHAL WEAPON. <sigh>

[CountyDeputy]

And I am sure even being new to CCW, common sense and good judgement are your best friends..

Each states law vary when it comes to CCW and alcohol, so do your research!

Now, for my own little thought.. I don't frequent bars for a multitude of reasons. My biggest is that I know I can control myself in any situation. When consuming alcohol, I know my judgement is impaired. In a bar however, I have to not only worry about what I am doing, but I have to worry about every other person there and what they are doing. I can be accountable for myself, but that doesnt hold true for others. They handle themselves differently, and when drinking that can add an unknown risk to the situation. Now, place a firearm in that environment and you have just added to the fire that could potentialy arise, and being in a place where many peoples judgement is impaired...

Dont risk it! You may do everything right if a situaiton arises, but everyone is looked at skeptically when its all said and done. You could end up loosing your CCW even though you followed the rules!

[digitalexplr]

The answer to this question is not dependent on what your state laws says, rather what is the smart thing to do. And I think everyone in their heart knows the answer to this question.

[crhoades]

If you had to discharge your weapon in a justified situation and you had 2 drinks in your system and were in complete control...do you think a DA would use that information against you in a civil suit? Anything that could cost you thousands of dollars or time in jail is not worth it. And all of that is if it doesn't cloud your judgement etc.

[cypress]

This is why I am studying martial arts. I don't want take the risk of carrying and using lethal force while it might be argued that my judgement is impaired. At the same time a situation where I and others are drinking is also where I might most likely need to defend myself or a friend. As long as I behave myself and don't get blotto, I feel reasonably confident about my ability to defend myself from an attack. Yes I could be confronted by an armed attacker, but I try to make up for that by using good judgement where I choose to go out at night in the first place.

[Carnivorous]

Originally Posted by crhoades

If you had to discharge your weapon in a justified situation and you had 2 drinks in your system and were in complete control...do you think a DA would use that information against you in a civil suit? Anything that could cost you thousands of dollars or time in jail is not worth it. And all of that is if it doesn't cloud your judgement etc.

The DA won't be bringing a civil suit. DA is criminal. The survivors or the families of the decedents would bring the civil suit.

And you're right, the drinks would be used against you.

The basic "self-defense" justification for deadly force is if the shooter "reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the [shooter] against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force". If you've been drinking, it's easy to convince a judge or jury that the alcohol made you unable to form a "reasonable belief" that the use of deadly force was "immediately" necessary. There are too many holes in self-defense law for you to take any drug, alcohol or otherwise, that affects your perceptions.

Oh, and one more thing: specifically for Texas, but likely for other states as well, you CANNOT use deadly force if you are in the middle of criminal activity, other than minor traffic offenses. So if you're smoking dope when a home-invasion happens, you're SOL.

(As always, check the law yourself. Specifically, sections 9.31 and 9.31 of the Texas Penal Code. I am not your attorney and this is not legal advice.)