Best .40cal defensive ammo

[Street Dog]

Dig Me, The term "Knock Down" power is a figure of speach. No shoulder fired firearm will knock down a person just from inpact, as it would also knock down the shooter (Newton's law would apply here).
Battle rifle calibers would include, 7.62 NATO, 30-06, and 8mm, among others. I would not include 5.56, though it works well at close ranges.
My point to Matt was and is, to find a round that functions, and is accurate (head shots at 15 yards is what I use) in his gun, and then get some training, and practice, practice, practice.

[DigMe]

Originally Posted by Street Dog

Dig Me, The term "Knock Down" power is a figure of speach. No shoulder fired firearm will knock down a person just from inpact, as it would also knock down the shooter (Newton's law would apply here).

Why are you telling me this? That's what I've been saying here. Many people actually believe that "knock down" power is not a figure of speech. Believe it or not many people actually believe that the sheer force of the bullet from a small arm will actually knock you down. That's why I've been saying this...to help dispell that myth. Either way I avoid the use of the term "knock down" power because there just no "knocking down" occurring. There's falling down and there's incapacitation. Either way there's no way to quantify the "amount" of incapacitation power between weapons so even that is a silly argument when people start talking about how they chose a particular gun because it has more knockdown power. Even if they aren't referring to actually knocking someone down.

Originally Posted by Street Dog

My point to Matt was and is, to find a round that functions, and is accurate (head shots at 15 yards is what I use) in his gun, and then get some training, and practice, practice, practice.

Can't disagree with that! Except I mainly drill on COM shots with a few Mozambiques mixed in. I think COM is a much more likely hit than a headshot.

brad cook

[cleric670]

If you want knockdown power take some boxing lessons or close combat martial arts classes then work on building up your wrists and hands through lots and lots of punching because (correct me it i'm wrong please!) a hard punch from a trained person is going to have a lot more knockdown power than a bullet unless you are shooting a very large caliber expanding round. Besides pulling your gun means you want to kill someone not just injure them, that means possibly facing manslaughter charges (especially in washington state). What i'm getting at is the gunplay should be reserved for someone who also has a gun or lethal device and is in the act of using it to kill ppl. THEN you have the right to blow him away.

[cleric670]

forgot to add at the end of my last post that the range you are shooting someone who has snapped (like the Virginia Tech shooter or the guy who shot those ppl in the mall sometime in nov. 07 i think) will likely be a hell of a lot farther away then 25ft or even 25yds so be proficient at shooting at all ranges up to maybe 100yds because you never know when or why you may need to draw your pistol.

[Cumminalong]

1 - It functions 100% of the time in YOUR weapon

2 - The heaviest round, in the the largest caliber that you can effectively control and make well aimed follow up shots.

3 - It shoots to YOUR point of aim from YOUR weapon

Everything else is gravy and a matter of opinion.

Some will say that bullet X is better than bullet y in this, that, or another category. Everything is a tradeoff. With one you get controlled expansion, with one you get penetration, with one you get weight retention, etc., etc., etc.....

There is no magic answer to this question. Trial and error on the range leads to no errors at the time you make a critical decision.

[bkelm18]

Originally Posted by cleric670

forgot to add at the end of my last post that the range you are shooting someone who has snapped (like the Virginia Tech shooter or the guy who shot those ppl in the mall sometime in nov. 07 i think) will likely be a hell of a lot farther away then 25ft or even 25yds so be proficient at shooting at all ranges up to maybe 100yds because you never know when or why you may need to draw your pistol.

Be proficient at shooting out to 100 yds with a handgun? For self defense? Are you serious? That's quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've heard all day. Not only is a target at 100 yds not even close to being a threat to you (unless he's shooting a rifle at you, in which case you should be running and not standing still trying to engage him with a handgun), the target will be moving. I can guarantee you that 90% of the people here cannot repeatedly hit a moving target at 100 yds under stress without the use of some kind of shooting rest... MAYBE. So instead of wasting your time trying to master the 100 yard moving target shot with your carry gun, concentrate on the 25 yd and under ranges that are FAR more likely to occur in a self defense scenario.

ETA: Now before everybody jumps down my throat, I did NOT say that 100 yd shots with a pistol are impossible. I said that in a self defense situation with a moving target, you will: a) most likely not hit him/her (increasing your chances of hitting someone else), b) waste ammo (since this will be with your CCW, you will not have much to begin with), and c) ruin your main advantage over the attacker: the element of surprise.

[Cumminalong]

Originally Posted by bkelm18

Be proficient at shooting out to 100 yds with a handgun? For self defense? Are you serious? That's quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've heard all day. Not only is a target at 100 yds not even close to being a threat to you (unless he's shooting a rifle at you, in which case you should be running and not standing still trying to engage him with a handgun), the target will be moving. I can guarantee you that 90% of the people here cannot repeatedly hit a moving target at 100 yds under stress without the use of some kind of shooting rest... MAYBE. So instead of wasting your time trying to master the 100 yard moving target shot with your carry gun, concentrate on the 25 yd and under ranges that are FAR more likely to occur in a self defense scenario.

ETA: Now before everybody jumps down my throat, I did NOT say that 100 yd shots with a pistol are impossible. I said that in a self defense situation with a moving target, you will: a) most likely not hit him/her (increasing your chances of hitting someone else), b) waste ammo (since this will be with your CCW, you will not have much to begin with), and c) ruin your main advantage over the attacker: the element of surprise.

Don't laugh.....but you're gonna.

When I was 8, me, my father and several of his hunting buddies were going out to my grandfathers property. Well, to mark the trail going in on the other side of the field, my father nailed an old 14" miter saw blade. So as were walking up, my father buddy says, "Hey, bet you can't hit the blade out there." So pop pulls out his little .380 that he always had (yes, a .380) and puts this thing up......up.......up a bit more......POP......TING!!!! Sure as heck, hits the thing.

"Betcha can't do it again!".....up.....up......POP......TING!!!

Come to find out it was 218 yards away.

[cleric670]

Originally Posted by bkelm18

Be proficient at shooting out to 100 yds with a handgun? For self defense? Are you serious? That's quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I've heard all day. Not only is a target at 100 yds not even close to being a threat to you (unless he's shooting a rifle at you, in which case you should be running and not standing still trying to engage him with a handgun), the target will be moving. I can guarantee you that 90% of the people here cannot repeatedly hit a moving target at 100 yds under stress without the use of some kind of shooting rest... MAYBE. So instead of wasting your time trying to master the 100 yard moving target shot with your carry gun, concentrate on the 25 yd and under ranges that are FAR more likely to occur in a self defense scenario.

ETA: Now before everybody jumps down my throat, I did NOT say that 100 yd shots with a pistol are impossible. I said that in a self defense situation with a moving target, you will: a) most likely not hit him/her (increasing your chances of hitting someone else), b) waste ammo (since this will be with your CCW, you will not have much to begin with), and c) ruin your main advantage over the attacker: the element of surprise.

Sorry all i meant is that 100 yds should be the maximum range you should practice and definitely not what you should spend most of you time on but out in the open or a common area in a local mall just look around at how far you may potentially have to fire and practice that range so you know how you will have to line up the sights because you NEVER KNOW.