Interesting note from John Farnam about Xds - Page 4 - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

**Ed Ely** · 06-24-2005, 02:00 PM

Goodness, gosh oh gee! Thanx for all those PMs, but I have
to set you straight. I said $1 buyback on the XDs not the
Glocks, I only will offer $.50 for the latter.

Seriously, how the hell can one call ones-self an armourer of
a particular machine when in fact they could not cram a banana
up you know where with both hands unless it was KY jellied.

An armourer is a master gunmaker, not just a parts replacer.
These guys go for factory training and the poor guys on the
street put their lives in his hands, so he damn well best know
what he is doing at all times. Putting a part in backwards,
out of place/sequence or leaving a part out is inexcuseable
and can/will cause a DOA LEO.

So, how many qualified armourers do you think that we REALLY
have in the departments?

Ed

Steve H in AZ · 06-24-2005, 02:19 PM

I am on the list of John Farnam's list of quips............while I find most interesting reading, he is very far off the mark with the XD post as with a lot of what he sends out. A co-worker and I sent back responses to various atricles he has sent out, he makes up his mind and that is it. If you differ with his opinion he will not respond to your message. What he sends out is far behind what we are doing in my area.

I can tell you why the XD has only made small in-roads in the LE market, is because most have recently (last 10 years) switched to Glocks, and do not want to switch to another gun. My agency has 350 sworn, and a only allow Glocks, and have larger issues (according to my boss) to deal with than approving another gun.

After I purchased my first XD, I sold all my Glocks to buy more XD's.

I shot the Glock for over 10 years and still carry one (am forced to by policy) on duty. I think the XD is a superior gun. Glock lovers will of course disagree, but that is the great thing about America.........I don't understand the need to badmouth something different, the anti gunners will and do enough of that for all of us.

Steve H.

RLLOVER · 06-24-2005, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waldo

Some AR parts can go in backwards, whats his point.

I bet I can stomp the slide of an HK on backwards too. They must suck.

I bought a Bushmaster DCMP for $500 because the previous owner reassembled the ejector arm in backwards. It was trying to throw the shell into the port side of the upper.

2 minute swap and I was shooting before he left the range.

The only only parts I can think of that can be isntalled backwards are the firing pin safety on the slide and the retaining pin. Maybe the trigger spring and the sear spring, but you'd have to work at it. I put the pin in backwards and just used a carbide tip to grab it and pull it out.

WyoBob · 06-24-2005, 07:30 PM

[quote="Cuda"Anyone got a pic of a Glock stripped down to it's parts to compare to the above pic?[/quote]

Scroll down this page:

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb2.html

WyoBob

RonS · 06-24-2005, 07:51 PM

It's called idiot proofing. Sometimes it can be carried to extremes. It has been reported that the original HK-91 had a trigger pull that was designed to exceed the weight of the rifle so that troops could safely hang it up by the trigger.

On the other hand, there have been some guns that were badly designed. There was a rifle, Canadian I think, that could have the bolt assembled in such a way that the locking lugs would not engage the recesses, giving the design a black eye.

I think, that in general, if there are user servicable parts of the XD that are easily reversed during assembly, then perhaps the design could have been a little bit better thought out. On the other hand, if the designers had made idiot proofing priority one, I doubt that we would have had such an excellent handling and shooting handgun. You pays your money and you takes your choices.

Perfection exists onnly in the mind of God.

Brasso · 06-25-2005, 12:09 PM

Actually, there is a part on the glock that can be put in wrong. If you don't put the 2 frame pins in, in the correct order, the slide will not lock back. A minor issue I know, but the glock is not idiot proof either.

C.H.Luke · 06-28-2005, 05:19 PM

"The XD is a good gun, but it is not up to Glock standards yet."

On the other hand it may be the precise reason you see so many flat-out Moron's at Glock Aromor's Classes. You couldn't train a Chimp to be one, as he'd be bored to death after the 1st one.

one-eyed-fatman · 06-28-2005, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C.H.Luke

"The XD is a good gun, but it is not up to Glock standards yet."

On the other hand it may be the precise reason you see so many flat-out Moron's at Glock Aromor's Classes. You couldn't train a Chimp to be one, as he'd be bored to death after the 1st one.

Quote:

"The XD is a good gun, but it is not up to Glock standards yet."

Nothing against you C.H. Luke but screw Glock standards. We have our own standards. Puff's out chest and yells (in his best Tarzan voice)
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!

Funny. I just found out the word Glock is not in my spelling checker. I wonder why?

Fingolfin · 06-28-2005, 09:29 PM

This guy must REALLY hate Sigs.

ForGreatJustice · 06-28-2005, 11:40 PM

Okay folks. I'm going to take a step back and tell you guys to settle down. Because first of all, you're reacting like John just bashed XDs, their armorers, and their owners to all hell, when it's clear that he finds them quite acceptable as a firearm. For those of you who may not have met the man, you do make a lot of assumptions about him that don't logically derive from the text of his "quip".

I'm acquainted with a number of people who have brought XDs to his classes, and contrary to what you people seem to think, Farnam did not tell them all to buy a Glock or suggest that they change their guns.

I sold my Glock for an XD, and I love my XD. But here are some FACTs:

1) Glocks are simpler to detail strip and reassemble than XDs.
2) You can inadvertently assemble the XD incorrectly and not have any indicator of it until the gun fails to operate correctly.
3) If you put "the pin" in backwards, its not coming out anytime soon.

Here's some OPINIONS (not facts)
1) The XD's relative complexity is a deciding factor for police departments.
2) Some simple engineering changes to the pins of the XD could improve its ease of assembly.

I don't think either of the above is unfounded. That's all most of this stuff is. Just opinions, some of which are based on facts. The majority of this stuff is a NON-issue to me and the rest of my fellow XD carriers. I'm curious. Are any of you who responded department armorers? I'd like to hear some opinions from one.

FWIW, John loves his P229 DAK, among other guns.

06-24-2005, 07:30 PM	#34
WyoBob XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Buffalo, WY Posts: 261	[quote="Cuda"Anyone got a pic of a Glock stripped down to it's parts to compare to the above pic?[/quote] Scroll down this page: http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb2.html WyoBob __________________ XD-40 SC, SA 1911 SS Loaded (45), SA LW Champion

06-28-2005, 05:19 PM	#37
C.H.Luke XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 176	"The XD is a good gun, but it is not up to Glock standards yet." On the other hand it may be the precise reason you see so many flat-out Moron's at Glock Aromor's Classes. You couldn't train a Chimp to be one, as he'd be bored to death after the 1st one. __________________ \"Never stop practicing the fundamentals of marksmanship during training. Sight alignment, sight picture & trigger control will determine whether you hit or miss in the end.\" Chuck Taylor

06-28-2005, 09:29 PM	#39
Fingolfin XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Lexington, South Carolina Posts: 103	This guy must REALLY hate Sigs. __________________ http://img213.exs.cx/img213/8307/small9dz.gif

06-28-2005, 11:40 PM	#40
ForGreatJustice XDTalk Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Central FL. Posts: 93	Jesus...you people are like children. Okay folks. I'm going to take a step back and tell you guys to settle down. Because first of all, you're reacting like John just bashed XDs, their armorers, and their owners to all hell, when it's clear that he finds them quite acceptable as a firearm. For those of you who may not have met the man, you do make a lot of assumptions about him that don't logically derive from the text of his "quip". I'm acquainted with a number of people who have brought XDs to his classes, and contrary to what you people seem to think, Farnam did not tell them all to buy a Glock or suggest that they change their guns. I sold my Glock for an XD, and I love my XD. But here are some FACTs: 1) Glocks are simpler to detail strip and reassemble than XDs. 2) You can inadvertently assemble the XD incorrectly and not have any indicator of it until the gun fails to operate correctly. 3) If you put "the pin" in backwards, its not coming out anytime soon. Here's some OPINIONS (not facts) 1) The XD's relative complexity is a deciding factor for police departments. 2) Some simple engineering changes to the pins of the XD could improve its ease of assembly. I don't think either of the above is unfounded. That's all most of this stuff is. Just opinions, some of which are based on facts. The majority of this stuff is a NON-issue to me and the rest of my fellow XD carriers. I'm curious. Are any of you who responded department armorers? I'd like to hear some opinions from one. FWIW, John loves his P229 DAK, among other guns. __________________ -Dammit. There goes my .50 CHOAD

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06-24-2005, 02:00 PM	#31
Ed Ely XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: 37.65N -84.76W (Elev. 932 ft) Posts: 7,835 Blog Entries: 1	Goodness, gosh oh gee! Thanx for all those PMs, but I have to set you straight. I said $1 buyback on the XDs not the Glocks, I only will offer $.50 for the latter. Seriously, how the hell can one call ones-self an armourer of a particular machine when in fact they could not cram a banana up you know where with both hands unless it was KY jellied. An armourer is a master gunmaker, not just a parts replacer. These guys go for factory training and the poor guys on the street put their lives in his hands, so he damn well best know what he is doing at all times. Putting a part in backwards, out of place/sequence or leaving a part out is inexcuseable and can/will cause a DOA LEO. So, how many qualified armourers do you think that we REALLY have in the departments? Ed

06-24-2005, 02:19 PM	#32
Steve H in AZ XDTalk Newbie Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mesa,AZ Posts: 12	I am on the list of John Farnam's list of quips............while I find most interesting reading, he is very far off the mark with the XD post as with a lot of what he sends out. A co-worker and I sent back responses to various atricles he has sent out, he makes up his mind and that is it. If you differ with his opinion he will not respond to your message. What he sends out is far behind what we are doing in my area. I can tell you why the XD has only made small in-roads in the LE market, is because most have recently (last 10 years) switched to Glocks, and do not want to switch to another gun. My agency has 350 sworn, and a only allow Glocks, and have larger issues (according to my boss) to deal with than approving another gun. After I purchased my first XD, I sold all my Glocks to buy more XD's. I shot the Glock for over 10 years and still carry one (am forced to by policy) on duty. I think the XD is a superior gun. Glock lovers will of course disagree, but that is the great thing about America.........I don't understand the need to badmouth something different, the anti gunners will and do enough of that for all of us. Steve H.

06-24-2005, 07:51 PM	#35
RonS XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 179	It's called idiot proofing. Sometimes it can be carried to extremes. It has been reported that the original HK-91 had a trigger pull that was designed to exceed the weight of the rifle so that troops could safely hang it up by the trigger. On the other hand, there have been some guns that were badly designed. There was a rifle, Canadian I think, that could have the bolt assembled in such a way that the locking lugs would not engage the recesses, giving the design a black eye. I think, that in general, if there are user servicable parts of the XD that are easily reversed during assembly, then perhaps the design could have been a little bit better thought out. On the other hand, if the designers had made idiot proofing priority one, I doubt that we would have had such an excellent handling and shooting handgun. You pays your money and you takes your choices. Perfection exists onnly in the mind of God.

06-25-2005, 12:09 PM	#36
Brasso XDTalk Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 57	Actually, there is a part on the glock that can be put in wrong. If you don't put the 2 frame pins in, in the correct order, the slide will not lock back. A minor issue I know, but the glock is not idiot proof either.