Grip safety while holstering

[Philadelphia]

Originally Posted by Bree

I have kinda been watching a lot of you guys describing how you push down on the slide/striker indicator with your thumb in reholstering. It occurs to me that if one of the rules of gun safety is not to put anything in front of the muzzle that you aren't prepared to destroy... since the gun might unexpectedly fire and destroy whatever is in front of it... why would you put something behind the slide???

Seems like the same deal to me. If the gun fires unexpectedly, that slide is going to come back with terrific force. If you have some body part back there, you are going to bust it up pretty bad. Maybe I'm wrong but it just seems like a bad idea to put anything in front of or behind the slide.

Maybe you have a point. I would prefer to have my thumb intact at all times.

What technique would you recommend to make use of the grip safety while holstering without getting anything in front of or behind the pistol?

I can't picture what would work efficiently other than what I presently do (granted risking some injury to my thumb which I'm OK with). But . . . if you have a way, I'd appreciate it if you'd share.

What I presently do to reholster is shift my grip so thumb is on top of the slide, trigger finger extended out slightly away from the pistol (works for me -- if I can feel anything on my trigger finger I know it's not where it belongs for this operation), the muzzle enters the holster pointing line of sight or down range or however you want to describe in a safe direction I'm facing and away from me, and down toward the ground as it goes in. I usually look at all this going on because as you have said, there are no circumstances I can think of where you'd have to holster in a hurry but I can do it even if it's too dark to see fine detail so that's one use of being able to do it safely by feel.

Thanks.

[Bree]

Originally Posted by Philadelphia

Maybe you have a point. I would prefer to have my thumb intact at all times.

What technique would you recommend to make use of the grip safety while holstering without getting anything in front of or behind the pistol?

I can't picture what would work efficiently other than what I presently do (granted risking some injury to my thumb which I'm OK with). But . . . if you have a way, I'd appreciate it if you'd share.

What I presently do to reholster is shift my grip so thumb is on top of the slide, trigger finger extended out slightly away from the pistol (works for me -- if I can feel anything on my trigger finger I know it's not where it belongs for this operation), the muzzle enters the holster pointing line of sight or down range or however you want to describe in a safe direction I'm facing and away from me, and down toward the ground as it goes in. I usually look at all this going on because as you have said, there are no circumstances I can think of where you'd have to holster in a hurry but I can do it even if it's too dark to see fine detail so that's one use of being able to do it safely by feel.

Thanks.

It's really pretty easy. Let your hand slide down the grip a little so that the web of your hand is just below the bottom of the grip safety. Your fingers are still holding the gun normally but you are literally unable to disengage the grip safety.

Put the muzzle into the holster. Slip the rest of the gun in until you hit the retention detent and then using the web of your hand against the lower half (compact) (or 2/3rds with a standard grip) of the grip just push it in over the detent or that last half inch or so. No contact with front or back of the gun.

It takes an extra motion to reposition your hand to get it off the grip safety but there's no hurry.

Another way would be to use your thumb and index fingers to apply pressure to the sides of the gun while keeping your web over but off of the grip safety. I think that is a harder way to do it.

Maybe if you just have to grip the slide, do it on the sides of the slide so if the gun inadvertantly fires, the slide will "slide" through your fingers rather than bashing something behind the slide.

Some thoughts.

[Philadelphia]

Originally Posted by Bree

It's really pretty easy. Let your hand slide down the grip a little so that the web of your hand is just below the bottom of the grip safety. Your fingers are still holding the gun normally but you are literally unable to disengage the grip safety.

Put the muzzle into the holster. Slip the rest of the gun in until you hit the retention detent and then using the web of your hand against the lower half (compact) (or 2/3rds with a standard grip) of the grip just push it in over the detent or that last half inch or so. No contact with front or back of the gun.

It takes an extra motion to reposition your hand to get it off the grip safety but there's no hurry.

That makes sense and I don't think it would take a lot of adjusting to get used to.

I'll give it a try.

Thanks.

[motorcyclemac]

[quote=Bree;760786]I have kinda been watching a lot of you guys describing how you push down on the slide/striker indicator with your thumb in reholstering. It occurs to me that if one of the rules of gun safety is not to put anything in front of the muzzle that you aren't prepared to destroy... since the gun might unexpectedly fire and destroy whatever is in front of it... why would you put something behind the slide???


I guess I don't understand how your weapon is going to fire if you are doing your part to be sure that you are safely entering the holster. We shouldn't be inserting the muzzle into an obstructed holster. We shouldn't have our t-shirt or other clothing covering the holster. If a person reacquires the index spot on your belly and then slowly sweeps the cover shirt away with your little finger of the strong hand it will clear the holster. We should be rocking our hip to the weak side to allow the shirt to hang away during this sweep. With your finger well clear of the trigger and indexed on the frame above the trigger you should feel any clothing near the weapon from the side. Once the muzzle is in the holster move the strong thumb to the rear of the slide applying an equal amount of force to the rear of the slide as you are applying with the middle ring and pinky....thus keeping the slide tightly in battery. We don't want to partially rack the slide back possibly disturbing the loaded round in the chamber. I attened a shooting school here in Washington where the range officer would only allow a reholster sans thumb on 1911 pattern guns with a positive slide engaged safety. All other pattern guns such as Glocks Sigs etc. HAD to be followed by the thumb on reholster... unless you wished to be hollered at and made to do it a few dozen times until you get it. This process is so engrained in my habits now that I still do it on my 1911 and find my thumb to the left of the hammer when I holster. You are very correct in that we should be in no hurry to reholster. In fact we should be reluctant to holster before we are sure that ALL the shooting is finished, all the bad guys are leaking and we are safe. We should check our 6 and our sides to be sure that we aren't holstering when the second wave of the battle is about to start. IF the shooting IS done and the smoke is clearing revealing a parking lot riddled with brass and dead bad guys.. we have ALL DAY to be putting a full magazine in our weapon and looking at how our shirt is hanging and if it is in our trigger. I personally would rather risk the slim chance of getting my thumb broken than to have disturbed a properly loaded round thus leaving my gun out of battery. I don't want to encounter my weapon in a non firing condition should the fit hit the shan. That is my take on it.. YMMV It works for me and many others. Bottom line do what works for you and be safe about it.
Mac.

[Bree]

[quote=motorcyclemac;762300]

Originally Posted by Bree

I have kinda been watching a lot of you guys describing how you push down on the slide/striker indicator with your thumb in reholstering. It occurs to me that if one of the rules of gun safety is not to put anything in front of the muzzle that you aren't prepared to destroy... since the gun might unexpectedly fire and destroy whatever is in front of it... why would you put something behind the slide???


I guess I don't understand how your weapon is going to fire if you are doing your part to be sure that you are safely entering the holster. We shouldn't be inserting the muzzle into an obstructed holster. We shouldn't have our t-shirt or other clothing covering the holster. If a person reacquires the index spot on your belly and then slowly sweeps the cover shirt away with your little finger of the strong hand it will clear the holster. We should be rocking our hip to the weak side to allow the shirt to hang away during this sweep. With your finger well clear of the trigger and indexed on the frame above the trigger you should feel any clothing near the weapon from the side. Once the muzzle is in the holster move the strong thumb to the rear of the slide applying an equal amount of force to the rear of the slide as you are applying with the middle ring and pinky....thus keeping the slide tightly in battery. We don't want to partially rack the slide back possibly disturbing the loaded round in the chamber. I attened a shooting school here in Washington where the range officer would only allow a reholster sans thumb on 1911 pattern guns with a positive slide engaged safety. All other pattern guns such as Glocks Sigs etc. HAD to be followed by the thumb on reholster... unless you wished to be hollered at and made to do it a few dozen times until you get it. This process is so engrained in my habits now that I still do it on my 1911 and find my thumb to the left of the hammer when I holster. You are very correct in that we should be in no hurry to reholster. In fact we should be reluctant to holster before we are sure that ALL the shooting is finished, all the bad guys are leaking and we are safe. We should check our 6 and our sides to be sure that we aren't holstering when the second wave of the battle is about to start. IF the shooting IS done and the smoke is clearing revealing a parking lot riddled with brass and dead bad guys.. we have ALL DAY to be putting a full magazine in our weapon and looking at how our shirt is hanging and if it is in our trigger. I personally would rather risk the slim chance of getting my thumb broken than to have disturbed a properly loaded round thus leaving my gun out of battery. I don't want to encounter my weapon in a non firing condition should the fit hit the shan. That is my take on it.. YMMV It works for me and many others. Bottom line do what works for you and be safe about it.
Mac.

The deal is simple. You never ever stick your head in front of a gun barrel because it might go off and kill you. You don't have to know why or how it might go off... just THAT it might go off. It is exactly the same thing with the slide. It simply isn't safe to put your thumb or any other body part on the back of the slide when a gun is loaded. Maybe you will snag the trigger... maybe a bird will fly into it... maybe the thing will simply discharge spontaneously.

Is that even possible?? Could a gun spontaneously discharge? As a matter of fact it is possible. Here is one way you might not have thought of... http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=240590

Bottom line just don't do it. If you are doing it now, stop and re-learn a better method to replace your old bad habit. No matter how you slice it, it's not safe.

My $.02.

[JJ.45]

i watched mastering the mini glock and the instructor recommends pushing in on the back of the slide to holster your weapon.

edit to add: the reason for this is that the glock can be knocked out of battery when holstering, as can most striker fired semi-autos. However, if you holster the XD with your hands OFF the grip safety, it CAN'T be knocked out of battery.

All you really need to do is loosen your grip just enough for your gun to tip forward. The web of your hand will catch the bottom 1/2 of your grip. Fom there, just tighten your grip and holster your gun. Again, you do NOT need to worry about your XD being knocked out of battery if your hand is off the grip safety.

[Bree]

Originally Posted by JJ.45

i watched mastering the mini glock and the instructor recommends pushing in on the back of the slide to holster your weapon.

edit to add: the reason for this is that the glock can be knocked out of battery when holstering, as can most striker fired semi-autos. However, if you holster the XD with your hands OFF the grip safety, it CAN'T be knocked out of battery.

All you really need to do is loosen your grip just enough for your gun to tip forward. The web of your hand will catch the bottom 1/2 of your grip. Fom there, just tighten your grip and holster your gun. Again, you do NOT need to worry about your XD being knocked out of battery if your hand is off the grip safety.

Instructors have a right to be wrong!

[motorcyclemac]

Bree:
Is that even possible?? Could a gun spontaneously discharge? As a matter of fact it is possible. Here is one way you might not have thought of... http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=240590

Heh.. Well...the folks in that story should prolly have thought that thru a little better. Hmmm... A steel weapon in the same room as a magnet that strong. Oh...and that is not spontaneous discharge. That is discharge due to poor gun handling. That gun didn't belong there and shouldn't have been out of it's holster in that environment. Not the fault of that gun that it fired.

Bree:
Bottom line just don't do it. If you are doing it now, stop and re-learn a better method to replace your old bad habit. No matter how you slice it, it's not safe.

I think that you and I should agree to disagree. In my opinion your perspective on firearm safety is a little off. I wonder how you carry a gun with the ever looming fear of it shooting a hole in the floor just to the side of your ankle and the slide racking you in the ribs. Those of us that carry inside the pants must put a little bit of our arse cheek at risk every time we sit. I don't have any issue with the thumb on the slide proceedure. It poses NO potential of your thumb being injured provided you as the gun handler does your job. In all my years of shooting and thousands of rounds down range, never have I ever seen a factory built gun accidentally discharge. Generally speaking when a gun unintentally discharges it is because there is finger in the trigger that is attached to a non thinking operator.

Thanks for your concern, however I will not change my habit of following the slide with my thumb when holstering. No matter how YOU slice it, YOUR opinion of it not being safe ...is that ...YOUR opinion. Firearms are dangerous devices and at which point we stop giving them the respect they deserve someone may be injured. A procedure that I use may not be something that you are comfortable with but if I use that procedure and another person gets hurt then I will have to assume resposibility for my actions. I trust my weapons to be safe and in perfect working order. I trust them to not to become possesed and randomly discharge ammo. If I can't trust them I won't carry them. This is one of the reasons that I don't carry a pistol until it has had a minimum of 350 rounds thru it. Suffice to say..opinions vary ...yours don't match mine... That's ok..ride safe...stay in the wind and be safe.

Mac

[Bree]

Originally Posted by motorcyclemac

Bree:
Is that even possible?? Could a gun spontaneously discharge? As a matter of fact it is possible. Here is one way you might not have thought of... http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=240590

Heh.. Well...the folks in that story should prolly have thought that thru a little better. Hmmm... A steel weapon in the same room as a magnet that strong. Oh...and that is not spontaneous discharge. That is discharge due to poor gun handling. That gun didn't belong there and shouldn't have been out of it's holster in that environment. Not the fault of that gun that it fired.

Bree:
Bottom line just don't do it. If you are doing it now, stop and re-learn a better method to replace your old bad habit. No matter how you slice it, it's not safe.

I think that you and I should agree to disagree. In my opinion your perspective on firearm safety is a little off. I wonder how you carry a gun with the ever looming fear of it shooting a hole in the floor just to the side of your ankle and the slide racking you in the ribs. Those of us that carry inside the pants must put a little bit of our arse cheek at risk every time we sit. I don't have any issue with the thumb on the slide proceedure. It poses NO potential of your thumb being injured provided you as the gun handler does your job. In all my years of shooting and thousands of rounds down range, never have I ever seen a factory built gun accidentally discharge. Generally speaking when a gun unintentally discharges it is because there is finger in the trigger that is attached to a non thinking operator.

Thanks for your concern, however I will not change my habit of following the slide with my thumb when holstering. No matter how YOU slice it, YOUR opinion of it not being safe ...is that ...YOUR opinion. Firearms are dangerous devices and at which point we stop giving them the respect they deserve someone may be injured. A procedure that I use may not be something that you are comfortable with but if I use that procedure and another person gets hurt then I will have to assume resposibility for my actions. I trust my weapons to be safe and in perfect working order. I trust them to not to become possesed and randomly discharge ammo. If I can't trust them I won't carry them. This is one of the reasons that I don't carry a pistol until it has had a minimum of 350 rounds thru it. Suffice to say..opinions vary ...yours don't match mine... That's ok..ride safe...stay in the wind and be safe.

Mac

So be it. Do as you wish. The issue has been raised and you see it your way and I see it mine.

[JJ.45]

The bottom line is that the only reason it is necessary to push on the slide to holster a weapon, is to keep the weapon in battery.

When holstering a Glock, it is a GOOD idea to push down in the slide when holstering. If you don't, there is a chance of taking it out of battery. If that happens, and you draw to fire, you are screwed.

When holstering an XD, it is NOT necessary to push down on the slide to keep it from being taken out of battery. Best to just let the gun fall forward in your hand and holster it from the grip.