proper shooting grip

[kannibul]

Originally Posted by Sdevante

Being new to guns, I find this advice the easiest to relate to of anything I've read on this site. Thanks!

Try not to think of boobies too much while shooting. It can produce inaccurate shot placement.

[FrankW438]

Originally Posted by Pugs

Also, try to just let your strong thumb lay limp without squeezing. Basically, all your strong hand should be doing is pulling the trigger.


...you're gripping too hard with your strong hand and not hard enough with your support hand. It also sounds like your support hand is not getting enough palm contact with the weapon's grip.


Rather than sticking with what feels natural and comfortable now, maybe try finding what really works and then working on making that natural and comfortable through repetition.

Pugs:

These little nuggets of knowledge are priceless! I wish someone like you had taught me this years ago when I started shooting. It would have saved me a lot of frustration until I figured it out on my own. Very well said!

I use a modified revolver grip, ie. weak thumb over strong thumb. This gives me good leverage to manage the recoil with my weak hand. There is an old Jeff Cooper video where he demonstrates that only two fingers of the strong hand are needed to fire a handgun: thumb and index finger. The rest of them are just along for the ride. I've told many new shooters the relax their strong hand as much as possible, and squeeze with your support hand only. It makes a helluva difference in trigger control.

As far as stance, I have to agree with you again, Pug. I've tried Modified Weaver and never found it to benefit me. I shoot isosceles because it is much more natural and gives me a steadier base. Also, when I have to shoot left or right barricade, it is a much more natural transition into a "Modified Isosceles."

Again, very well-said, Pug. I'd be interested in seeing how you grip your mouse when you are surfing for corn. I'm originally from Iowa and I had no idea that there was such a thing as competitive corn surfing. I'll have to post some pictures of my uncle's cornfield for you.

-- Frank

[Pugs]

Okay,

Pardon the lack of quality in the pics, but hopefully they'll be enough to show what I mean.

And if any experienced shooters/instructors want to give me pointers, I'd greatly appreciate it!

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In this first pic I'm demonstrating how the weapon should be in a straight line with the forearm. The web between the thumb and index finger should be as high on the grip as possible. Basically, you want the recoil to come straight back and be absorbed by the skelatal structure of the arm. Having the web between the thumb and index finger high on the grip means that the pivot point of the gun during recoil is higher and more in line with the recoil. This minimizes how much the barrel will rise.

The grip on the weapon is fairly loose. The only muscles in the hand that you want involved are the muscles that pull the trigger. Muscles under tension will move with the muscles around them. If all the muscles of the hand and forearm are tense, when you move the muscles for the trigger finger, the muscles around them will also move causing the weapon to move.


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This second pic emphasizes how much of the grip is exposed on the support hand side of the weapon. All of that exposed grip is surface area for your support hand to make contact with. You want to cover as much of that with your support hand palm as you can.


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The following pic shows my support hand palm and how much of the meat of that palm is going to make contact with the exposed area of the grip.


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In the next pic, my support hand is in place. Notice how all of that exposed grip mates up with my support hand palm? Also notice how my support hand thumb is forward and the bones all line up to make a straight line from the tip of the thumb through my forearm? That alignment again is so that your skelatal structure is supporting the weapon and the recoil.

Also notice the tension in my support hand? I'm clamping down with this hand to control the muzzle flip. There's no fine motor control here like is needed with the trigger finger, so I'm free to lock down hard without compromising accuracy.


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In this picture, my strong hand thumb is now in its proper place. I can see how this would be resting on the slide stop for a right-handed shooter. What you can't see is how relaxed that thumb is and how it is putting absolutely zero pressure/friction on the slide which could be rubbing against it when it cycles.

Notice how high against the top of the grip the web of my hand is. Having it that high controls muzzle flip and having the grip nestled into the vee of the web puts the recoil forces straight back against the skeleton.


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Here it is from the other side. Notice the high grip, the lack of tension in the strong hand, the presence of tension in the support hand. These are all things that will help you to maintain control and accuracy.


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Isosceles stance. I stagger my feet. I've been told that this is a no-no, but it works well for me, especially in movement drills. It also allows me to put more of my weight forward into the weapon. You can see the tension in my support hand forearm as I clamp down on the weapon to control it.

My knees are slightly flexed and my arms are straight. I'm not locking the elbows out hard, but the arms are straight so, again, the recoil can come straight back and be absorbed by the skeleton rather than the muscles. This prevents muscle fatigue and is less susceptible to the muscle tremors that accompany an adrenalin dump.


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Same thing from the other side. Less tension evident in the strong hand forearm here. Again arm straight letting the skeletal system bear the pressure.


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Top view of the isosceles stance. You can see that the arms are straight and they form an isosceles triangle, hence the name of the stance.


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A better top view.


And that's my grip and stance. Please feel free to ask questions and to give me pointers.

I hope this helps.

[Bycyclist]

Looks pretty good to me Pugs. Only two comments - your knees look a bit locked back so that even though your upper torso is forward, you've rocked back slightly. Look at the pix - shoulders are still behind ball of feet, so your weight still slightly biased back possibly.

No issue with one leg back slightly (usually strong side) - that's more stable.

On the support hand grip, lock your middle finger under that big middle knuckle. Another nice natural index point.

But then, what do I know...I'm just a Bycyclist ; )

[mhillsing23]

Thanks for the pointers. I am still getting comfortable with proper grip!

[CharlieHo]

You have girly hands!




J/K Nice pictures!

[Pugs]

Originally Posted by Bycyclist

Looks pretty good to me Pugs. Only two comments - your knees look a bit locked back so that even though your upper torso is forward, you've rocked back slightly. Look at the pix - shoulders are still behind ball of feet, so your weight still slightly biased back possibly.

No issue with one leg back slightly (usually strong side) - that's more stable.

On the support hand grip, lock your middle finger under that big middle knuckle. Another nice natural index point.

But then, what do I know...I'm just a Bycyclist ; )

Hey Bycyclist,

I appreciate the feedback. I have a tendency to keep my weight above my feet at all times. It's a habit drilled into me from martial arts and wrestling. I try to keep my weight more forward while shooting, but it's a constant adjustment for me.

As was mentioned in a subsequent post, I've got short little girly hands and my support hand fingers won't wrap all the way around to the knuckle!

Being a self-taught shooter, I've still got a way to go before breaking all my bad habits.

Thanks!

[Pugs]

Originally Posted by CharlieHo

You have girly hands!

Tell me about it! You can't really tell in the pics, but I've even got long fingernails on my right hand. One of my wife's cousins once asked her, "hon', how come one of his hands is all sissified but the other ain't?" You'll have to imagine the Kentucky/Tennessee twang.

My wife of course stood up for me and said, "it's 'cause he's half a sissy!" Again you'll have to imagine the hillbilly accent.

That's love for you, right there! I think that things clicked for her cousin when she saw my guitars later.

But yes, I do have girly hands. They're short, smooth, supple, and... oh wait... was that out loud again...

Originally Posted by CharlieHo

J/K Nice pictures!

Thanks. Hopefully they show what I tried to explain in my original reply to the original poster.

[atmiller]

Originally Posted by jbrodsky

I have a compact 45. I'm a competitive powerlifter so hand stength is not a problem and I have fairly large hands

What's your bench?

I use to work out with Mike Wolfe when I lived in Ohio. I think he's up to an 850 bench now in competition. Of course he weighs 400+ himself.

[Loves2Shoot]

Originally Posted by Bycyclist

Looks pretty good to me Pugs. Only two comments - your knees look a bit locked back so that even though your upper torso is forward, you've rocked back slightly. Look at the pix - shoulders are still behind ball of feet, so your weight still slightly biased back possibly.

No issue with one leg back slightly (usually strong side) - that's more stable.

On the support hand grip, lock your middle finger under that big middle knuckle. Another nice natural index point.

But then, what do I know...I'm just a Bycyclist ; )

BY,

Looks like you are learning a thing or two. Not a bad analysis for a bike rider.

Pugs,

If you did martial arts, think semi modified horse stance for the leg postistion, it will ground you much better and make the follow-up shots much easier. Dropping a leg back isn't a bad thing.