Potential Situation... PLEASE give me your thoughts. - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

Arkansas · 04-23-2005, 06:42 PM

Man, the more I think about this, the more concerned I get. I'll try not to make this too "wordy"...

I put an ad in the paper that ran today for my G-17 asking $410. I agreed to sell it to a gentlemen for $400 on Monday if I could not sell it for $410. I got a call from another guy who said he was interested. After I told him I had already committed to sell the gun on Monday, but I'd take his # and call him if the sale fell through, he said he'd give me $450 for it today!

Well, I met the guy, he introduced himself as "John" and I could tell he was pretty much white trash I don't mean sloppy, poor or dirty - he was white trash. He handed me $450 and said he'd like to have $10 for gas to get home on. I told him $5 would do it since he told me where he was driving from. So, I sold it to him for $450 as the BoS states and gave him $5 for gas to get home on.

I asked him to sign a Bill of Sale and he did. He signed it as "Bob Smith", filled in the address(when his buddy laughingly hit him) with a different city that where he said he was driving (I didn't notice this until I got back in my truck), and he was ready to get the hell out of Dodge. Before he left I stuck out my hand and introduced myself to his friend. He said his name was "Bob" (like the buyer signed as). So I think the buyer signed as his buddy kind of as a Joke. But, why would a white trash SOB not want to use his real name? All of this kind of came together in my mind after I sold him the gun and he was gone.

Man, what if I sold this gun to a felon? I am concerned about this. He paid me in cash which was probably drug $. He didn't date the Bill of Sale like I asked, but I dated my side when I signed it. I have also taken digital pics of my caller ID when he called, and I have a copy of the paper when the ad was printed.

Am I being silly?

Thanks
J

03RangerXLT · 04-23-2005, 06:54 PM

cover your ass... ain't nothin' silly about doin' that!

EDIT: I appluad you for being concerned. Some people would just shrug and say forget it.

HighVelocity · 04-23-2005, 06:56 PM

Well, I am not familiar with Arkansas laws on private party gun sales but assuming they're completely unregulated like they are in TX I'll tell you what I have done.

1. I want to see their drivers license. Mainly to insure they are >21 and a resident of my state.

2. I ask up front if they have ever been convicted of a felony or have a restraining order against them. I know they would probably lie but I feel better having asked.

3. If I see their vehicle I write down the license plate number before I drive away.

one-eyed-fatman · 04-23-2005, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighVelocity

Well, I am not familiar with Arkansas laws on private party gun sales but assuming they're completely unregulated like they are in TX I'll tell you what I have done.

1. I want to see their drivers license. Mainly to insure they are >21 and a resident of my state.

2. I ask up front if they have ever been convicted of a felony or have a restraining order against them. I know they would probably lie but I feel better having asked.

3. If I see their vehicle I write down the license plate number before I drive away.

That's very solid advice.

Verm · 04-23-2005, 07:12 PM

I would be more than a little concerned. If the gun is used in a crime, it comes back to you. You sold it to someone without proof of ID. If someone is injured or killed with the pistol, you can bet that an attorney will be looking at anyone and everyone to nail.

You may want to contact local authorities regarding this and cover your ass. May sound like alot of fuss over selling a gun, but trust me, it sure the hell beats having to deal with a lawsuit. If the guy is clean and just didn't want to give you his name because he's paranoid, tough ****. You need to cover all your bases.

Fly-Sig · 04-23-2005, 07:30 PM

I don't think I'd get too terribly worked up over this. The guy represented himself as lawfully purchasing the gun. He didn't ask you to keep it quiet, he didn't seem drugged up, etc.

However, I would talk to a lawyer rather than the police. The police may be obligated to make a big deal out of this, whereas a lawyer can tell you with some certainty what your exposure is if the new owner was in fact a felon or if the gun is used in a crime in the future.

When I bought a handgun from an acqaintance he had a form that we both signed. It spelled out that the seller was the legal and owner of the firearm and that it had never been used in a crime. It also spelled out that I, the buyer, was certifying that I am not a convicted felon, under a restraining order, or classified as a prohibited person under federal law, and that I will not commit any crimes with the gun. I think that this kind of form is a good idea in showing that the seller has made reasonable efforts to ensure that the buyer can legally purchase/possess firearms, and the buyer gets assurances that the seller is similarly legal to possess and sell the handgun.

Although I'd rather have zero record of my purchases, which may be what your buyer was thinking if he used his friend's name.

Arkansas · 04-23-2005, 07:32 PM

I didn't think of the license plate # until he'd already drive off and I was in my truck going home. Usually I'm slicker than that, but I guess I was just trying to figure out why I didn't have a peaceful easy feeling about the situation. I can easily describe the car, but hell, he probably didn't give his real name when he bought it either.

Also, the lawyer thing (avoiding the PD exposure at this point) is probably a great idea.

Dang, you know looking back this, I don't know what the right thing would be/have been to do. I guess I'll contact my local PD or attorney and explain what happened. I sure hope I didn't sell it to a "Meth Chef", which are very popular where said he was driving in from.

You know, I'd give $450, $900 or even $10,000 to do the right thing in this situation to avoid any abuse on another person.

This is really a philosophical/political quandry. I still have to stick to my guns (no pun intended) and consider that this is deal between me and that guy - no place for gov't regulation. For my conscious sake, and in all reality, if he would not have gotten that gun from me, he would have gotten it elsewhere. I just hope I'm not sued or my reputation is not harmed. I have a 3 month old daughter, and I don't want here daddy labeled as a criminal!

Gary G23 · 04-23-2005, 08:40 PM

I got a call a few weeks ago from the BATF about a gun I sold TEN YEARS AGO. You need to ask for identification and keep good records. If you can't prove where a gun goes to it's your ass.

dsg2003gt · 04-23-2005, 08:52 PM

just hope he doesnt come back and want the other $5 for gas....and use your G17 to get it.

one-eyed-fatman · 04-23-2005, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary G23

I got a call a few weeks ago from the BATF about a gun I sold TEN YEARS AGO. You need to ask for identification and keep good records. If you can't prove where a gun goes to it's your ass.

There is no law in Texas that say's you have to do this but it sounds like very good advice. I have a form from Washington state I use for a sale.

It can be found at the bottom of this page...

http://www.dol.wa.gov/forms/652004.htm

This is a form I use for my records only.

04-23-2005, 06:42 PM	#1
Arkansas XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 133	Potential Situation... PLEASE give me your thoughts. Man, the more I think about this, the more concerned I get. I'll try not to make this too "wordy"... I put an ad in the paper that ran today for my G-17 asking $410. I agreed to sell it to a gentlemen for $400 on Monday if I could not sell it for $410. I got a call from another guy who said he was interested. After I told him I had already committed to sell the gun on Monday, but I'd take his # and call him if the sale fell through, he said he'd give me $450 for it today! Well, I met the guy, he introduced himself as "John" and I could tell he was pretty much white trash I don't mean sloppy, poor or dirty - he was white trash. He handed me $450 and said he'd like to have $10 for gas to get home on. I told him $5 would do it since he told me where he was driving from. So, I sold it to him for $450 as the BoS states and gave him $5 for gas to get home on. I asked him to sign a Bill of Sale and he did. He signed it as "Bob Smith", filled in the address(when his buddy laughingly hit him) with a different city that where he said he was driving (I didn't notice this until I got back in my truck), and he was ready to get the hell out of Dodge. Before he left I stuck out my hand and introduced myself to his friend. He said his name was "Bob" (like the buyer signed as). So I think the buyer signed as his buddy kind of as a Joke. But, why would a white trash SOB not want to use his real name? All of this kind of came together in my mind after I sold him the gun and he was gone. Man, what if I sold this gun to a felon? I am concerned about this. He paid me in cash which was probably drug $. He didn't date the Bill of Sale like I asked, but I dated my side when I signed it. I have also taken digital pics of my caller ID when he called, and I have a copy of the paper when the ad was printed. Am I being silly? Thanks J

04-23-2005, 06:54 PM	#2
03RangerXLT XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Atlanta area, Georgia Posts: 2,216	cover your ass... ain't nothin' silly about doin' that! EDIT: I appluad you for being concerned. Some people would just shrug and say forget it. __________________ -John WAR DAMN EAGLE!!!

04-23-2005, 07:12 PM	#5
Verm XDTalk 500 Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Carson City NV. Posts: 814	I would be more than a little concerned. If the gun is used in a crime, it comes back to you. You sold it to someone without proof of ID. If someone is injured or killed with the pistol, you can bet that an attorney will be looking at anyone and everyone to nail. You may want to contact local authorities regarding this and cover your ass. May sound like alot of fuss over selling a gun, but trust me, it sure the hell beats having to deal with a lawsuit. If the guy is clean and just didn't want to give you his name because he's paranoid, tough ****. You need to cover all your bases. __________________ Enough firepower, the will and the guts to use it all.

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04-23-2005, 06:56 PM	#3
HighVelocity XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 398	Well, I am not familiar with Arkansas laws on private party gun sales but assuming they're completely unregulated like they are in TX I'll tell you what I have done. 1. I want to see their drivers license. Mainly to insure they are >21 and a resident of my state. 2. I ask up front if they have ever been convicted of a felony or have a restraining order against them. I know they would probably lie but I feel better having asked. 3. If I see their vehicle I write down the license plate number before I drive away.

04-23-2005, 07:30 PM	#6
Fly-Sig XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 242	I don't think I'd get too terribly worked up over this. The guy represented himself as lawfully purchasing the gun. He didn't ask you to keep it quiet, he didn't seem drugged up, etc. However, I would talk to a lawyer rather than the police. The police may be obligated to make a big deal out of this, whereas a lawyer can tell you with some certainty what your exposure is if the new owner was in fact a felon or if the gun is used in a crime in the future. When I bought a handgun from an acqaintance he had a form that we both signed. It spelled out that the seller was the legal and owner of the firearm and that it had never been used in a crime. It also spelled out that I, the buyer, was certifying that I am not a convicted felon, under a restraining order, or classified as a prohibited person under federal law, and that I will not commit any crimes with the gun. I think that this kind of form is a good idea in showing that the seller has made reasonable efforts to ensure that the buyer can legally purchase/possess firearms, and the buyer gets assurances that the seller is similarly legal to possess and sell the handgun. Although I'd rather have zero record of my purchases, which may be what your buyer was thinking if he used his friend's name.

04-23-2005, 07:32 PM	#7
Arkansas XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 133	I didn't think of the license plate # until he'd already drive off and I was in my truck going home. Usually I'm slicker than that, but I guess I was just trying to figure out why I didn't have a peaceful easy feeling about the situation. I can easily describe the car, but hell, he probably didn't give his real name when he bought it either. Also, the lawyer thing (avoiding the PD exposure at this point) is probably a great idea. Dang, you know looking back this, I don't know what the right thing would be/have been to do. I guess I'll contact my local PD or attorney and explain what happened. I sure hope I didn't sell it to a "Meth Chef", which are very popular where said he was driving in from. You know, I'd give $450, $900 or even $10,000 to do the right thing in this situation to avoid any abuse on another person. This is really a philosophical/political quandry. I still have to stick to my guns (no pun intended) and consider that this is deal between me and that guy - no place for gov't regulation. For my conscious sake, and in all reality, if he would not have gotten that gun from me, he would have gotten it elsewhere. I just hope I'm not sued or my reputation is not harmed. I have a 3 month old daughter, and I don't want here daddy labeled as a criminal!

04-23-2005, 08:40 PM	#8
Gary G23 XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 105	I got a call a few weeks ago from the BATF about a gun I sold TEN YEARS AGO. You need to ask for identification and keep good records. If you can't prove where a gun goes to it's your ass.

04-23-2005, 08:52 PM	#9
dsg2003gt XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 126	just hope he doesnt come back and want the other $5 for gas....and use your G17 to get it.