Is the XD still "better than" the S&W M&P?

[GrovenSpringer]

The M&P smacks of the same embarassment as the Sigma here guys. Sorry I just thought I'd point that out. That Sigma was/is a P.O.S.! And I'm afraid the M&P may be going down the same road. I like most of what S&W has to offer but I think they missed the mark with this one. Maybe they had to hurry the pistol to make the debut with their AR? Anyway, the jury is still out on this gun.

[husker_t]

Here's a long thread at the M&P forum about various persons having rust on their new M&P's. Note that it's not just the original poster, the thread goes on for 4 pages and multiple other users report rust in the thread.

http://mp-pistol.com/boards/viewtopi...r=asc&start=60

An interesting point that is made repeatedly and agreed upon in that thread, after some people researched it: Melonite, when applied to stainless steel slides (as it is on the M&P), does NOT provide much corrosion resistance. But Melonite, when applied to regular steel like the forged steel in XD slides, DOES provide enhanced corrosion resistance. Therefore, this could explain why some people with M&P's are seeing rust problems, and the new melonite XD's are seeing far fewer rust problems. The quality of the "stainless" steel in the M&P slides is not "top of the line" (it's certainly not of the caliber of stainless in your kitchen sink, for example), and since the melonite does not really protect it, when exposed to serious humidity or moisture, they're finding in lots of instances that the M&P will form rust in a matter of hours. It doesn't seem to happen on all pistols, it's inconsistent, and they don't know why yet. But it's not just user neglect.

And here's a follow-up thread, where they failed to really resolve his issue. This thread also brings more users out of the woodwork having rust problems. This looks like kind of a big deal with the M&P's, though it's spotty and doesn't affect all of them.

http://mp-pistol.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=6901

And here's a thread on a new M&P 45 rusting:
http://mp-pistol.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=6001


However, much as I'm interested in the M&P and think that it will have a great future once they get the bugs worked out, it's not just because of these issues that I'm going with the XD. I actually prefer the XD for long-term reasons that will still be there even when the M&P gets their new bugs worked out. Like the XD's single-action trigger; like the XD's grip safety (and no need for a frame safety); like the XD's absolutely simply breakdown; like the XD's incredible accuracy and how well I shoot it. And oh yeah--it's a nice little bonus that my melonite XD doesn't rust!

[nikon777]

.....and XDtalk has an entire room devoted to rust, not just a few threads. Guns are metal, metal can and will rust.

[husker_t]

If you look at the rust room though, a very high percentage of the reports are with pistols that had the previous "Bruniral" finish on them. To my knowledge, with the new melonite finish being used since 2006, there is no unusually large number of XD's reporting rust issues. There is, however, a larger than expected number of M&P's reporting rust, considering that it's a stainless slide. This is an issue for the M&P, and is keeping some from buying it. There are many more M&P threads than the ones I listed that report rust.

Like I said though, these kinds of bugs are expected with a new gun, but I still think there are more long-term reasons to prefer the XD, listed in previous posts. Personally if I really liked the M&P better, I wouldn't avoid getting it just because of the rust issue with some of them. But potential buyers should know that they're having more of a problem with rust than the XD's are CURRENTLY. I'm not trying to run down the M&P or say no one should buy it, remember I started the thread with a post saying that I think the two are roughly equal, all things considered. But it's important to know about the rust issue, it's real.

[husker_t]

I just realized in my original report, I forgot to add something about accuracy of the XD versus the M&P. The "Shootout" test I mentioned there was for the 9mm but didn't include the 45. Now I don't think you can base a whole lot on this, as it's just one person, but I'll mention it because this review gets cited quite often in favor of the M&P. Jeff Quinn at Gunblast.com does a review of the M&P 45. There he reports the best accuracy he could get, shooting from a rest with his favorite hand loads and a variety of factory ammo, was "about two and one-half inches" at 25 yards. However, in his earlier review of the XD 45, he raves about the XD's accuracy: "Accuracy with the target handloads was fantastic.... Three-quarter inch groups at 25 yards was easy with the XD45. I was very impressed with the accuracy of this pistol." Note he uses the same ammo and testing approach, but he does not rave about the M&P's accuracy.

Reality is, I don't think we have enough hard testing data yet to say whether the XD 45 or the M&P 45 is most accurate. But it does seem worth mentioning that Jeff Quinn, a professional reviewer whose personal favorite is the M&P, and whose review of it is cited all over the place, got groups in his XD 45 test that were more than twice as tight as the M&P's groups (3/4" versus 2.5").

It'll be interesting over the long haul, as more formal testing is done, to see which of these turns out to be the most accurate.

[Martens]

I carry the XD at work and for SWAT and they are great guns. We just got some M&P's in for testing and eval, one .40 and one .45.

The M&P .40 has me really tempted to buy it and carry it on duty in lieu of the XD. I compared both with calipers and the differences in any measurement were less than .10 and most were less than .02. The two guns are very very similar in size.

Both point well for me and feel good. The M&P may actually point a little better but the grip does feel a little Sigma ish and pointed at the rear.

I shot both for groups at 25 yards and the XD grouped noticeably better. I can consistently get head shots with the XD at this distance but couldn't with the M&P.

I then did a lot of drills from the low ready with both guns at 7 and 10 yards. The M&P seemed to be more natutral although times for 2 to 5 shot drills never differed by more than .2 seconds. The M&P night sights seemed quicker to pick up in day light but they were newer and my XD sights are pretty worn. I should have my XD back from Springfield with new night sights next week and I will re test then.

The area were the M&P kicked the tail of the XD was in reload drills. This was not a problem of the gun, but do to the different location of the slide lock. The slide lock of the XD sits right under my thumb and in aggressive firing, I ride it down preventing a lock back. The M&P slide lock sits right between my thumbs and I always get a lock back with it. I need to either change my grip or do something so that I can get a lock back.

Some things I liked about the M&P was the capacity given the same basic size of the gun and the interchangeable grips were nice as well. The grip surface of the M&P felt very firm in hand and the XD feels a little slippery and I usually run an inner tube or some other grip enhancement.

We have the M&P's for a while still and I will shoot the two head to head a few more times before we send them back.

It does appear to be a good gun and the example we have has been 100% reliable through about 500 rounds so far.

As for the .45's, the XD has been preferred over the M&P by all the officers that have handled it. The grip is smaller but with more capacity and the trigger on the M&P is horrible. The trigger on the XD .45 we have for testing is the best XD trigger I have felt and the finish is noticeably improved over my gun which is two or more years old. Havign shot both, there is no comparison for me in the .45's, XD all the way. It was far more accurate out of the box for several different shooters and has a better more proportioned feel.

I hope this helps.

[husker_t]

Thanks Martens, that is really interesting "data" about the XD 45's accuracy. I suspect your testing was probably even more rigorous than the accuracy testing at Gunblast, and since you both reached the same conclusion (that the XD 45 is much more accurate), it does seem to suggest a trend.

[Ishpeck]

Why would anyone want a S&W that isn't a revolver?

[nikon777]

Originally Posted by Ishpeck

Why would anyone want a S&W that isn't a revolver?

because they're sweet, why would anyone want a springer thats not a 1911?

[Brickboy240]

I shot the M&P 45.

There would be one sitting in my safe if the trigger had not been so terrible.

Great ergonomics, very low recoil and fairly accurate...I liked it. Seemed very well made and I could live with the 10 rounds in stead of 13 in the XD-45. The M&Ps grip did not seem too long as does the XD45's long grip.

BUT...the trigger was awful. If you love Glock triggers, you'll love the M&Ps trigger. It was not nearly as crisp as my XD-40 - not even close.

If the M&P's trigger can be changed (like changing the Glock to the 3.5lb disconnector) then the M&P45 would be really nice, but sorry...the terrible trigger was a total deal killer for me.

Me? I am waiting to try the FNP-45 coming this fall or maybe the Beretta PX4 45 that they swear is coming.

- Brickboy240