Does SA seem too secretive??

[battlecreek1]

Maybe I'm making something out of nothing, but it almost seems like SA is too secretive sometimes. Anytime I email or call asking about a specific part, or function, all I get is "All I can tell you is..." or "I'm not allowed to disclose our findings, but suffice to say..." and then they say "Oh, don't worry it's o.k., go ahead and drink the Kool-Aid". So, why are they so unwilling to come clean on stuff? Tell the world how great the XD is and show the proof. Maybe corporate espionage and lawsuits have gotten to them, but it doesn't give me great confidence as a customer. Just wondering if anyone else felt this way, or had insight into the thought process.

P.S. - This includes their parts policy as well. They seems to really dance around it instead of just saying "Hey we don't trust you to work on your gun, or else you might sue us!" (In all fairness, it seems most gun companies are reluctant to disclose any "torture tests" etc...why is that? If your product is so good, show us the proof!) Sorry for the rant.

[Samuel]

It's really not about being secretive. It is basically technical support that is limited. They do not want to piss you off by saying "I do not know" or "I cannot tell you or rumors will start".


As far as the parts go, It is not because they do not trust us. It is because they are an importer and they put their name on the XD. For example. They get and XD sent back to them for some problem. They diagnose then go back to the ones who made it a raise cane at them for screwing up. It is a quality assurance thing and I am sure the maker gets a $$$ penalty. They want to know every failure in every way so THEY can see that the problem gets fixed and stays fixed.

SA #1 goal is to beat Glock out of the market 100%. They are using huge amounts of marketing. That alone is not enough though. They must maintain a 100% customer approval to get there. That is why they want us to send our problems to them, so they can fix the problems at the source.


Samuel

[ampleworks]

While that may be a nice philosophy to follow, parts that are drop-in that a normal user can install...if you require them to ship the gun back, go through being treated like a criminal by FedEx or UPS, it pisses me off more than just having to call them to get a replacement.

Obviously the average user isn't going to be able to ream the chamber or replace the extractor and get the proper tension on it but the fact they won't even sell roll pins for their flawed design really chaps some asses.

Sometimes the best customer service is just asking what the problem is and providing a resolution...not requireing you to go far out of your way to find a place that will ship your gun, be out $50 until they reimburse you and be without your gun for weeks at a time.

The more rollpins that they require you to ship the gun back to replace just makes it a longer wait for those who really do have problems.

[Samuel]

Also I would like to add: I have no doubt in my mind that eventually they will sell the parts. It is just a matter of time.


Samuel

[SLCDave]

Would you rather have a company like SA, that listens to their customers, develops new products (AND gets said new product to market) in a relatively timely manner, and offers a good level of customer service?

Or would you rather have a company like Taurus, that, for all its innovative thinking, announces guns about 1-2 years before they can possibly get them into the marketplace, will tell you what you want to hear to get you off the phone?

I like both companies, but I'd take SA over Taurus.

[tec]

Originally Posted by ampleworks

While that may be a nice philosophy to follow, parts that are drop-in that a normal user can install...if you require them to ship the gun back, go through being treated like a criminal by FedEx or UPS, it pisses me off more than just having to call them to get a replacement.

Obviously the average user isn't going to be able to ream the chamber or replace the extractor and get the proper tension on it but the fact they won't even sell roll pins for their flawed design really chaps some asses.

Sometimes the best customer service is just asking what the problem is and providing a resolution...not requiring you to go far out of your way to find a place that will ship your gun, be out $50 until they reimburse you and be without your gun for weeks at a time.

The more rollpins that they require you to ship the gun back to replace just makes it a longer wait for those who really do have problems.

tec:
But what is the " average user". What standard do they use. I am mechanically inclined. But I have never done more then a field strip on my XD. ( Am I afraid, no, just don't need to yet.) Others here do have much more experience. Others here are dumber then a bag of rocks, based on their questions (no offense to you guys/gals). So how does S.A. determine who is ABLE to safely do this work. Can you imagine how many lawsuits they could get, and that would put them out of business, then no warranty work for anyone.

On a side note tho, about parts, here is a copy of a email from Drew at S.A. concerning parts:
--------------
tec
Joined: 19 Jul 2004
Posts: 1790
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:27 pm Post subject:
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wirebender wrote:
....... I'm just wondering if SA checks forums like these and maybe goes that extra mile to help out (like that call you got on Sunday?). Just a thought, I maybe way wrong.

Tec replied
There is another post that I did here within the last week about S.A. and the parts issue. During that conversation with drew, he did mention that the parts issue will be resolved soon and that yes they DO keep track of this forum and the general mood of the members here.

[rodnocker1]

I'm glad to hear they are keeping track of what we are dealing with. I know that Ivan (aka: Blackdragon) keeps track of the RIA owners and their problems over on the 1911 forum. If your listening, Thanks Guys for your continued Customer Support. We Appreciate it!

[battlecreek1]

Samual,

Good thoughts on fixing problems at the source through documentation...hadn't thought about it that way. Not totally convinced, but at least it makes some sense.


Why are gun companies, SA included, so secretive about the testing that guns go through, though? I'm not asking about current R&D, just tell me the testing you did on a gun that's already in the market. Honesty works.

[Sandy]

Could be that you're getting the kind of answers that you're getting because you're dealing with an importer, and not a manufacturer. If you could speak Croatian and could get somebody in Croatia on the phone, they'd probably know more about the XD than somebody at Springfield might.

[speedracer211]

I do not think they are secretive just uninformed or misinformed. It just seems that SA is feeding different people different information. Like the employees at SA do not get the same information or memos. It seems if they were a little more organized or informed the customer service people all the same info. we would not be soo confused why we get the responses we do. Just my rant