45 GAP- Will it catch on !?

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by MPSoldier

Steve, C'mon man. You could justify 10+1, but 9+1 and it's "Forget it"? Truthfully, aren't you being just a little picky?

Besides, what do you need all the ammo for? I've been attacked by insurgents in Iraq so I can definitely appreciate the need for extra ammo, but here stateside, it's a different animal. Many concealed carry weapons are sub/micro compact handguns, which have smaller capacities as it is. A revolver and it's probably even less.

You are probably not going to be in some long, drawn out, Old-west/Lethal Weapon - style shoot out. You're probably going to be up against 2-3 guys at the most. If it's more than that, you're probably in the wrong place to begin with.

Are those 3 extra rounds you get in other calibers really the deciding factor? If you haven't hit the bad guy with the first 9 rounds, you're probably not going to hit him with the next 3. If it's such a concern, carry an extra magazine. To each their own, but let's be realistic; 3 less rounds does not make the weapon obsolete.

It's not so much the capacity MP, as it is the cartridge logic. If you can build the gun on the same platform with a 7 or 8 round capacity of ACP and make it slimmer...wouldn't this make more sense? We are talking about a cartridge that has many more options in bullet style and grain weight, and many more companies producing it.
Yes!...It is nit picky to compare 9+1 to 10+1...But...If you can't at least make the 10 round threshold with the GAP cartridge, the why not stay with the ACP in the first place and gain a more concealable package? Hell!…The Glock 30 makes more sense.
Just my opinion.

[ranburr]

I like the GAP. I think it will really shine when someone like Kahr puts it into a compact pistol.

ranburr

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by aerowinged

Well,

Sure you may not have as many rounds, but isnt it proven by ... whoevers job it is to prove these things... that the bigger the bullet the more penetration you will get which means the better the chance the bullet with go further into the body and knock out some vital stuff all the while creating more damage all the way through (bigger cavities). Every little thing in the bullets path effects what its going to do, so if your wearing a heavy coat or something, then yes, sure, that is goign to hinder penetration. Penetration is more dependant on the weight of the bullet than the velocity, or at least this is what i have learned in school.

So, yeah, there are obviously advantages having more bullets as well as having bigger bullets. It may come down to stopping them in 3 little bullets or 2 bigger bullets. If this were the case, then capasity really doesnt seem to matter as much.

The way i look at it, if you ever have to shoot someone, you are shooting to kill them, not to just wound or hurt or disable, but to put them down for good so that they can no longer in any way pose a threat to you thereafter. Because as long as that person can still move an arm, he can still use his own weapon against you. And in my opinion bigger bullets have a better chance killing that bad guy quicker (as long as you actually hit them) considering the infinate ammount of vairables that arise in these situations. However, if you cant his the broad side of a barn, then i guess you have a better chance of doing damage with more bullets.

With all this said, it brings me back to my last threads which didnt help out so much. I still dont know wether to go with the .40 or .45 GAP ? haha, and im looking to buy one by the end of the week.

The .40 S&W and 357 SIG give up nothing to the .45 slug. Hyper-velocity, excellent penetration and explosive expansion vs. bigger and slower.

[MPSoldier]

Originally Posted by aerowinged

Well,

Sure you may not have as many rounds, but isnt it proven by ... whoevers job it is to prove these things... that the bigger the bullet the more penetration you will get which means the better the chance the bullet with go further into the body and knock out some vital stuff all the while creating more damage all the way through (bigger cavities). Every little thing in the bullets path effects what its going to do, so if your wearing a heavy coat or something, then yes, sure, that is goign to hinder penetration. Penetration is more dependant on the weight of the bullet than the velocity, or at least this is what i have learned in school.

So, yeah, there are obviously advantages having more bullets as well as having bigger bullets. It may come down to stopping them in 3 little bullets or 2 bigger bullets. If this were the case, then capasity really doesnt seem to matter as much.

The way i look at it, if you ever have to shoot someone, you are shooting to kill them, not to just wound or hurt or disable, but to put them down for good so that they can no longer in any way pose a threat to you thereafter. Because as long as that person can still move an arm, he can still use his own weapon against you. And in my opinion bigger bullets have a better chance killing that bad guy quicker (as long as you actually hit them) considering the infinate ammount of vairables that arise in these situations. However, if you cant his the broad side of a barn, then i guess you have a better chance of doing damage with more bullets.

With all this said, it brings me back to my last threads which didnt help out so much. I still dont know wether to go with the .40 or .45 GAP ? haha, and im looking to buy one by the end of the week.

Penetration is more dependent on the weight of the bullet? I don't know what school you went too, but I'd like to see the math on that. I have seen pictures of pieces of straw driven through steel pipe by the speed of tornado winds. Force=mass x speed. That's one reason the military uses the 5.56 NATO round (.223 Remington for the layman) in the M16/M4 series weapons. It's only a .223 caliber, but it's propelled with such force, it gets wonderful penetration. Also, if you're a bad shot, having more rounds doesn't mean a better chance of hitting something, it just means more opportunities to miss. I would rather be a good shot with 5 rounds than piss-poor shot with 10.

As far as your goal in shooting someone, I am not sure if I agree with your ideas. The reason we carry is to protect ourselves and our loved ones because we don't live in a perfect world, and it might become necessary to safeguard ourself and others. Maybe I have it wrong, but you make it sound like "Kill anyone who messes with you." I WILL shoot the bad guy, center mass, just like I train. But once I have taken away their ability to threaten myself or others, my part is done. Call the cops. If the BG dies, I will not lose sleep, but I understand the CCW means a right to defend myself, not a license to kill.

[aerowinged]

Yes rifle calibers are designed to move at incredibe speeds and they are also a different animal. Performance is much more limited when in a pistol design. But a 230 Grain .45 cal with a velocity of 850 fps is going to penetrate more than a 9mm 115gr. with a velocity of 1155 fps. This is at least what i have learned with a Basic overview of wound ballistics. So please dont bash me too hard, im just stating what ive been taught to believe.

As for stopping someone, i guess i didnt mean to come out that harsh- i dont believe in "Kill anyone who messes with me." But if your goal when protecting yourself is not to incapasitate the bad guy completly, then i think you are underestimating him and leaving yourself and others prone to further harm. If it is someones GOAL to KILL YOU, you can never be certain of what they are capable of doing even with 5 bullets already in them. There are a lot of crazy people out there driven by passion or drugs or whatever it may be, that are not going to stop until their dead. So like i said before, there are millions of different situations that can arise, and its up to you to decide in your situation what is necessary to ensure you are out of harms way. And like you said- shoot center mass- and you shoot center mass to kill. We all know that shooting the gun out of the bad guys hand only works in movies.

[kraigster414]

Geez, glfpunk, you can't even spell "ignorant." Relax ok? I voiced an opinion, you voiced an opinion and the beat goes on. This has been a hotly contested issue for a long time (you're not breaking any new ground) and nothing I say or you say is going to change anyone's opinion to any appreciable degree. My major gripe with the GAP is that it was introduced as means to gain market share (for Glock) without the need for re-tooling. Ballistics didn't have a whole lot to do with it.
Again, I go back to the grip issue which was the THE driving force behind the cartridge's intro.

The GAP IMHO is a poor man's .45 ACP and you can say whatever you want about it. If you like it, buy it, enjoy it, and shoot it. It's a better defensive round than say, a .38 Special, .380 or standard velocity 9mm. That alone gives it points in my book. Enough said, sayonara.

[backstay]

Originally Posted by kraigster414

What do you think they are going to say? They love it of course.

Another thing to consider...do get handloaders to invest in another set of dies (though I guess you could use .45 ACP dies ?), brass, bullet heads, etc. I have all I can handle with the .45 ACP, 9mm, and .40SW.

I love this guy, he doesn't own one and is the expert. Buy what you want and don't listen to one side opinions. Will it be around, is the 10 mm, 357 sig, 38 super...ect around? Yes

[backstay]

Originally Posted by kraigster414

My major gripe with the GAP is that it was introduced as means to gain market share (for Glock) without the need for re-tooling. Ballistics didn't have a whole lot to do with it.
Again, I go back to the grip issue which was the THE driving force behind the cartridge's intro.

The GAP IMHO is a poor man's .45 ACP and you can say whatever you want about it. If you like it, buy it, enjoy it, and shoot it. It's a better defensive round than say, a .38 Special, .380 or standard velocity 9mm. That alone gives it points in my book. Enough said, sayonara.

I think Glock had a 45 ACP out so the re-tooling is untrue.

[kraigster414]

No obviously you're the expert Back. I have fired the .45 GAP, I have handled the .45 GAP Glocks, I own a G36 in .45 ACP and 1911 .45 ACPs and I see no reason to add another caliber to my arsenal. The slimmer grips of the 1911 and other guns chambered for the .45 ACP make it a non-starter for me - a comfortable platform for a more potent cartridge (in Plus P). Further, in my local area, retailers report slow sales of the GAP so apparently others feel the same way. Will they pickup, perhaps, perhaps not. I think one thing definately is for sure and that is that the GAP will never come close to the popularity of the .45 ACP.

As I have said ad nauseum, those who differ, fine that's what makes this sport so enjoyable - the abundance of options we have available. Later!

"The .45 GAP cartridge was designed by GLOCK to be used in the medium frame sized GLOCK 37 pistol... The smaller overall length allows a smaller grip diameter (since nearly all semi-automatic pistols store cartridges in the grip) which means that even a high capacity pistol can have a grip that is easily handled by most adults." Copied and pasted from attachment someone sent me, source unidentified but he/she is right.

[SonnyD]

It still isn't moving in this area, my local shop stocks 1 each of all 3 gap models, they've sold 6 since they came out, and have 2 used in the case now......it's the only model Glock that doesn't sell around here.

Regards Sonny