Good tips for improving your rifle shooting.

[gsh341]

Originally Posted by AwPhuch

Someone who claims 1.5" at 1000 yards is using BS more than anything else

Best of the Best: 1000-yard Record Dasher

Yup. A 6.125" 6-target 1000-yard Aggregate is the world record. The best group of the 6 targets was 4".

That's with a purpose built gun and a rest on a level table that is fastened to the ground.

Ask that same guy to shot while prone and resting the rifle on a rock or standing using a tree branch with the range as 1,000 yds +-20 yds and you probably won't see even 8" groups.

I also wonder how good he shoots offhand.

[Dirty Rod]

Originally Posted by AwPhuch

Someone who claims 1.5" at 1000 yards is using BS more than anything else

I think your data is outdated.

http://archives.gunsandammo.com/content/1000-yard-record

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2007/07/sarver-shoots-1403-group-at-1000-yards/

That all said, whether it's 1.5", 3", or 5" wasn't really the point.

Originally Posted by Bonehead

in theory, wouldn't a guy with a 1000 or 2000 yard capable rifle and the bench to go with it be able to set up his rifle and lock it in to where he wants it to hit and be able to not look and just pull the trigger?

wouldn't 50 yards be the same as 2000 yards because the bench set up takes the human element and all but nullifies it?

Interesting thoughts. I would think that if locking the gun down was the answer all of those people I see at the range with those huge lead rests them would have dime sized groups at 100 yards consistently. Definitely not what I'm seeing out of a lot of the people at my ranges.

[gsh341]

Originally Posted by cce1302

Yeah, it's not like just anybody with a camera and a computer can get a youtube account. They have an elaborate process to make sure that the people who are posting videos are actually experts in what they do.

Shooting a 3" target at 80 yards with a .22 is exactly the same as BR shooting.

Shooting a 3" target offhand at 80 yds with iron sights is a lot harder than bench rest shooting. I'll bet most of the guys on this forum that shoot 22s can't do it. I know I certainly can't. At least not with any kind of consistency.

[cce1302]

Now I'm getting more curious about BR shooting. I've read about it quite a few times in the past.

http://www.6mmbr.com/SixFive284.html
Here's one darn near an inch and a half at 1000 yds!!
"There have been some amazing results with the 6.5-284 over the last couple of years. In 1000-yard benchrest, the 30-calibers are still used by more shooters, but the little 6.5 is becoming more prevalent every season, and taking home more than its share of fake wood trophies. Rich DeSimone set a tough record to beat in the IBS Light Gun category with 1.564" 5-shot group at 1000 yards with his Ackleyized 6.5-284 Super and Clinch River 147s. "

Originally Posted by gsh341

Shooting a 3" target offhand at 80 yds with iron sights is a lot harder than bench rest shooting. I'll bet most of the guys on this forum that shoot 22s can't do it. I know I certainly can't. At least not with any kind of consistency.

He wasn't shooting offhand, or with iron sights in the second video, so I have no idea how your comment is relavent.

[gsh341]

Originally Posted by cce1302

He wasn't shooting offhand, or with iron sights in the second video, so I have no idea how your comment is relavent.

Watch the 3rd video. At 4:00 he shoots an egg offhand from 50 yds away with a Winchester Model 69 with open sights and Wolf 22 Long Target ammo.

Just in case you have never sen a Winchester Model 69, here it is.

Winchester Model 69 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apparently, the guy in the video can do it virtually every time.

I'd assume that if he has a higher caliber rifle with a scope, he could shoot a target that has the same apparent size as an egg at 50 yds does to the naked eye offhand just as accurately out to a pretty decent range.

[EMP 9mm]

OK after seeing that I just bought a big bag of pop corn.now I am ready for next few flics.hes really funny in his own way.

yep we use a rest of some sort but thats what it takes to make a great shoot from fare away.I really think that if he had a chance he would not hit a target from a 1000 yards off hand /iron sights.to much to count for.the wind alone would mess with him.its hard enough to just think about the dope or being able to see say 120 inches for a cross wind of that much.having a scope with the adjustments just plain out helps,make it better for us.thats why we have dope charts with hand loaded rounds.we know all thats needed to be known to make the shoot.

the back stop would have to have some sort of a measurement guid just to help.the size alone of the numbers/lines would be a foot or better just to be able to see them.now 200 yards I would say yes to.I know that can be done I've seen that done before.my best friend before he passed away did it at 200 yards shooting a TC chambered in a 308.he even shoot a water ballon with a 44 mag from a 100 yards free hand.( iron sights )but a 1000 or more no I just don't see it but hope I am wrong.

again I have my bag of pop corn ready for the next flic.hope they are even better.

[Bonehead]

Originally Posted by Dirty Rod

Interesting thoughts. I would think that if locking the gun down was the answer all of those people I see at the range with those huge lead rests them would have dime sized groups at 100 yards consistently. Definitely not what I'm seeing out of a lot of the people at my ranges.

I'm just asking because I know very little about it.

it seems all the "accuracy" happens before the finger even goes on the trigger. the gunsmith bench, the ammo loading bench, lots of pencil work.

there are variables like wind and how one bullet may behave slightly different than another but it isn't like a guy on a moving boat trying to score a head shot on another guy across a span of water in another moving boat where if he misses it means hostages pay with their lives.

that seems like a totally different skill set to me.

[Dirty Rod]

Originally Posted by Bonehead

I'm just asking because I know very little about it.

it seems all the "accuracy" happens before the finger even goes on the trigger. the gunsmith bench, the ammo loading bench, lots of pencil work.

there are variables like wind and how one bullet may behave slightly different than another but it isn't like a guy on a moving boat trying to score a head shot on another guy across a span of water in another moving boat where if he misses it means hostages pay with their lives.

that seems like a totally different skill set to me.

Well I'm definitely not the expert by any means and I'm sure there are people around that are MUCH better suited to discuss benchrest shooting but I think we can all agree that reading wind and dealing with other environmentals is a skill all by itself but like every shooting sport there are different classes and rules.

In some classes of benchrest, the rests cannot be attached to the bench, there are weight limits, the rear rest is a sandbag only, and the front and rear rests cannot be connected. This means that the user must still shoot without disturbing the sight picture, control breathing, etc just like someone running any other rifle behind a bipod.

Edit: Found some pics that might help visualize. Not the super duper comp gun but another of his bench rifles. If you look at the gun I'm on it and driving it and if you check out the table it's not some heavy cement thing with everything solidly bolted to the table. Definitely not something that will allow you to shoot a 2" group but is good enough for him to repeatedly hit that 24" target at 2k. In the second picture, the black arrow is 1k yards and the red is 2k. While the video proved that it's possible to hit a target at 50 yards with just your finger on the trigger I certainly couldn't do that at distance without moving the sights off the target. I had to control and drive the rifle to get even close.

The other thing to consider that many benchrest users are building their stocks, actions, and even barrels from scratch let alone coming up with their own custom loads. I've watched my friend spend months trying to find the right wood and then design and cut it in his garage. For a load, my friend reshapes some kind of 6mm round and then necks down a 300WM cartridge several times to get it to fit. Definitely all science but it takes some level of skill to be able to do these things with little variance round after round and barrel after barrel. All that work, testing, and research goes into trying to find a combination that works consistently at long range and is a big part of the sport.

Again, I'm NOT the expert but I have to give these guys respect because I certainly am not capable of doing any of the things mentioned. I've been able to ring steel at 1018 yards and regularly shoot from 500-800 yards but I could not do what he was able to do. If it was just about pulling the trigger then I should have been able to hit that 24" target. Unfortunately, I took 8 shots, got relatively close, but could not hit the target let alone go 4 for 4 like he did. I might just suck but it did prove the I didn't have the skill to just pull the trigger and make it happen.

[Marcucco]

Hi Guys
I'm the guy that made the YouTube videos in question.
I stopped by to see where the off-site hits were coming from.

I still have my vintage 1911, but I'm really not that into handguns any more.
The XD looks like quite an item but I never fired one.

To GSH341: I guess I do come off as sarcastic. I'm getting older and not so tolerate of nit-wits any more.
There's far too many people out there who think they actually learned something about firearms and marksmanship from playing video games.
They think hitting a target from a bipod or a sandbag is actually a skill.
I posted the clips to try and promote real marksmanship. You don't see much of it on YouTube

I'm pushing 60 and my eye sight is going so I'm not nearly the shot I was 20 years ago.
I just can't see eggs at 100+ yards any more but I can still pop 4 eggs with 5 rounds at 80 yards off hand with open sights if the sun is out and at my back.
The video segment in question was shot at 50 yards so you could still see me in the background and know it wasn't faked.

If CCE1302 can make it out to RI, I can prove it to him in person.
He can shoot off-hand and I'll shoot from his rest and we'll see who does better.
...but as he probably learned to drive playing Grand Theft Auto, chances are slim he'd actually make it this far.

Thanks for watching the videos and warmest regards to you all.

Mark

[gsh341]

Originally Posted by Marcucco

Hi Guys
I'm the guy that made the YouTube videos in question.
I stopped by to see where the off-site hits were coming from.

Even though it's a rather odd way to find our litle home on the web, welcome!