A discussion on employer's right to ban...This is a discussion on A discussion on employer's right to ban... within the CCW Talk forums, part of the Use and Training category; Another problem is that if you are on the clock then your employer can also be held responsible for you actions... if you negligently discharge ...
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03-20-2012, 02:08 PM
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#11
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Another problem is that if you are on the clock then your employer can also be held responsible for you actions... if you negligently discharge your firearm at work and injure someone, you think they're gonna bother suing you? Absolutely not, they are gonna go after the business that most likely has far more assets/cash than you....
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A government big enough to give you everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. --Thomas Jefferson
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03-20-2012, 02:08 PM
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#12
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I think you guys are missing the scope of this discussion... this is an employee's rights issue not property owner's rights issue. goers along the same lines as discrimination.
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"Gun-Free Zones" are shooting ranges for the criminally insane.
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03-20-2012, 02:10 PM
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#13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightslugger
I think you guys are missing the scope of this discussion... this is an employee's rights issue not property owner's rights issue. goers along the same lines as discrimination.
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Why are my employee's rights more important than mine?
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A government big enough to give you everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. --Thomas Jefferson
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03-20-2012, 02:13 PM
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#14
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Because it's one thing to have rights over your own property, it's another to have rights over another person. Other people and their rights do not belong to you. That is why employee rights exist, otherwise it'd be slavery.
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"Gun-Free Zones" are shooting ranges for the criminally insane.
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03-20-2012, 02:15 PM
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#15
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On this issue, WI has actually taken a pretty good stance. From the FAQ
Quote:
If an employer allows the carrying of concealed weapons and someone is injured or killed as a result of a license holder using the weapon, is the employer legally liable?
Generally no. However, there may be circumstances where such liability may exist and a discussion of such situations is beyond the scope of this brief legal summary.
The law provides:
A person who does not prohibit an individual from carrying a concealed weapon on property that the person owns or occupies is immune from any liability arising from his or her decision. Wis. Stat. § 175.60(21)(b).
An employer who does not prohibit one or more employees from carrying a concealed weapon is immune from any liability arising from that decision. Wis. Stat. § 175.60(21)(c).
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Thus, the employer that does not prohibit CC is not liable for the actions of the CCer that he employs. Looks like a win-win in that case. And, WI law does not allow prohibition of storage of a gun in the employee's car, so in any case one is not completely disarmed by the employer, as can be the case in most other states.
I don't agree with mandating that employers must allow CC. That's a property right issue and an employer-employee issue. Take it to the extreme, such a law could be construed to negate any of the state declared no-gun zones, like schools.
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There is no "Common Sense Gun Regulation". There is only unconstitutional gun restriction.
I carry always not because I go places trouble is likely, but because trouble has a habit of not staying in its assigned zone.
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03-20-2012, 02:16 PM
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#16
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It goes back to your freedom.... Nobody is FORCING you to work at "XYZ Company".... so nobody is forcing you to give up your rights. You work there by choice, and so you voluntarily agree to work under the employer's rules.
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Due to a horrible boating accident off the Atlantic coast, all firearms that I used to own were lost at sea. I will trust in our police and military forces to keep my family and I safe.
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03-20-2012, 02:20 PM
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#17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightslugger
Because it's one thing to have rights over your own property, it's another to have rights over another person. Other people and their rights do not belong to you. That is why employee rights exist, otherwise it'd be slavery.
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Exactly, I have the right to decide what happens on my property... They are not required to work for me, just like I'm not required to allow the to carry a weapon that puts my business and my assets in jeopardy... If you really want to get down to the individuals rights, we should eliminate all laws having to do with minimum wage, workplace discrimination and all the other hoops I have to jump through to hire a new employee.
It should come down to this: "I want you to work for me because ...... I will pay you $X and you be expected to do ............, are you interested?" Its as simple as that, if you don't want the job for any reason it is YOUR INDIVIDUAL RIGHT to say "No."
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A government big enough to give you everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. --Thomas Jefferson
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03-20-2012, 02:38 PM
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#18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdprof
...in any case one is not completely disarmed by the employer...
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You see there i disagree. that's no different than a gun in a safe. if it's not immediately within reach, you're unarmed.
Quote:
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I don't agree with mandating that employers must allow CC. That's a property right issue and an employer-employee issue. Take it to the extreme, such a law could be construed to negate any of the state declared no-gun zones, like schools.
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exemptions can always be put in place. it's a simple one liner such as: "except as outlined in SS XXX.XX(a)(1)"
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"Gun-Free Zones" are shooting ranges for the criminally insane.
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03-20-2012, 02:44 PM
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#19
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Sorry...but if you don't like that your employer won't let you carry, find a job where you can.
A carry permit does not mean you can carry wherever you'd like.
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Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding it's way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge".--Isaac Asimov
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--R.A.H.
..Man fights with his mind; his weapons are incidental--Jeff Cooper
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03-20-2012, 02:49 PM
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#20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightslugger
I think you guys are missing the scope of this discussion... this is an employee's rights issue not property owner's rights issue. goers along the same lines as discrimination.
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A person's rights only go as far as when they infringe on someone else's rights. The employee has the option to work there or not. The private employer should also have the option to require firearms be left off the property or not. The employees right to carry should not trump the employers right to decline. Same as a store owner can post signage saying "no Fire Arms allowed on the premises". You also have the right not to do business at that establishment.
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"Honor, justice, and humanity forbid us tamely to surrender that freedom which we received from our gallant ancestors, and which our innocent posterity have a right to receive from us. We cannot endure the infamy and guilt of resigning succeeding generations to that wretchedness which inevitably awaits them if we basely entail hereditary bondage upon them." - Thomas Jefferson, Declaration of Causes and Necessity of Taking up Arms (July 6, 1775)
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A discussion on employer's right to ban...
