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Asked to leave Lowes tonight

This is a discussion on Asked to leave Lowes tonight within the CCW and Open Carry Talk forums, part of the Use and Training category; Originally Posted by nightraider Sometimes guns are going to print or even get shown because of certain movement. There is no reason to ditch a ...


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Old 12-04-2006, 11:18 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightraider
Sometimes guns are going to print or even get shown because of certain movement. There is no reason to ditch a quality firearm thats better for defensive purposes for something like a Keltec just because you afraid some person is going to get upset that they saw your gun.
WHAT??? There is NEVER a reason for your to print or to show. If so you need to evaluate how you are carrying. Wether it be a wardrobe change, A different holster or change where you carry your weapon on your body. When I was liveing in Atlanta I carried all day while working as an electrician never was anyone aware that I was carrying. It's called effective concealment.
I got printed 9 years ago when I frist started concealed carry, I got printed at a shopping mall and between being banned from there by management, The officers made it very clear to me the law in Ga, Which printing could be charged as amisderminor crime and loss of CCW permit. Since then I read every thing I could on effective concealment and then bought the approporiate holster for my needs. I have 3 different holsters for my XD for different styles of dress now.
If you carelessly print you gove away your upper hand, Someone is always watching you.
Now that being said. lately I have been torn between open or concealed carry as both are legal here in Az. Seems that lately I have opted for open carry
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Old 12-04-2006, 11:26 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by jednp
a taser isn't legal everywhere. some cities, and some states don't allow them. also a taser could be considered a weapon... and I'm sure if someone really wanted to get pushy with you about it they could tell you that you are not allowed to carry a taser in their store. They could probably do that with pepper spray if they wanted.
I guess I'll have to stick with packing everywhere. If asked to leave . I'll leave and never return. Or I could become a LEO and tell them to kiss my a$$. I hate the restricting laws . I think everyone without a felony should be allowed to open carry anywhere, without a permit. Lawabiding citizens with guns don't commit crimes they prevent them. Just my 2 cents.
 
Old 12-04-2006, 11:31 PM   #43
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I'd inquire about the manager above this manager. Basically, go up the ladder starting with whoever is above him and keep going up to express your complaint.

End result I'm guessing will be that they'll just put up signs.
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Old 12-04-2006, 11:37 PM   #44
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The problem here is, not only is he a legal ccw-holder (probably the best free safe-guard the store could ask for), but he's a CAPTAIN in the USMC. Hello?! If something bad were to go down in your place of business, who would you rather have there:

1.) Security guard with minimal training.

2.) Highly trained Marine Corps officer legally carrying a firearm (which, no doubt, he is extremely proficient with).

I don't know about you (or Lowe's), but I'd feel much safer with a Marine browsing through my store than my "Corporate Security".

/end rant
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Old 12-04-2006, 11:53 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xd4life
WHAT??? There is NEVER a reason for your to print or to show. If so you need to evaluate how you are carrying. Wether it be a wardrobe change, A different holster or change where you carry your weapon on your body. When I was liveing in Atlanta I carried all day while working as an electrician never was anyone aware that I was carrying. It's called effective concealment.
First of all, reread what I wrote, because I dont think you understand what I said. I'm not saying that printing is good.

There are times when its going to print. Fortuantly most people wont recognize what they are looking at. Bending down is a time when a gun is going to print.

If your gun doesnt print at all then its tiny. An effective overall good defensive gun is a 4" barrelled service weapon and I doubt anyone here can say for certain their gun never prints as you would say.

Concealing the firearm though should be one of the last priorities. The first priority is situational awareness of course and having a good and effective firearm trumps having a firearm that is not as effective and wont print at all.

Last edited by nightraider; 12-04-2006 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 12-05-2006, 03:27 AM   #46
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I don't see how printing can be illegal. Any cop who says that is blowing smoke up your a#s to intimidate. It would have to become un-comcealed to be a violation....meaning uncovered, in plain view....
Covered and bulging out doesn't cut it...there are other things in your pants that can do that.
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Old 12-05-2006, 06:28 AM   #47
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*sigh*
Concealed means CONCEALED.
It does not mean invisible.
All the law requires, in most states, is that you have taken a reasonable amount of effort to conceal it.
If your shirt rides up and it can be seen it is STILL considered concealed.

As I believe has been already posted, brandishing means drawing it and waving it around. You are NOT doing that if your cover garment slips.

However, we all have to remember that it is the right of any business to refuse service to anyone. If they ask you to leave for any reason, including spotting your gun, that is their right. The ONLY recourse you have is to complain to the ownership/management.
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Old 12-05-2006, 08:04 AM   #48
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I have several colleagues that are local and federal LEOs. I sent this thread to them and their take was that in no way was this brandishing. The LEO would have to be some real A-hole to charge you with that and then the judge would probably have a few words with the cop for wasting his time.

The manager certainly has the right to eject you with or without a sign. You did the right thing standing up for your rights but ultimately you have to leave if they ask you to.

What does concern me is Lowe's underlying policy of not allowing guns. If they posted it you're right, they'd lost a lot of customers.

Let us know what happens.
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Old 12-05-2006, 08:04 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBunin
*sigh*
Concealed means CONCEALED.
It does not mean invisible.
All the law requires, in most states, is that you have taken a reasonable amount of effort to conceal it.
If your shirt rides up and it can be seen it is STILL considered concealed.
Different states, different laws. In Texas, "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person. If our good friend the marine had made his mistake here he could have lost his license and been charged with a crime. He may not have been brandishing a weapon, but he certainly failed to conceal it. If the handgun had remained properly concealed, this thread would not exist. The first mistake here was the failure to properly conceal, totally in the power of the author to correct. As you so aptly stated, concealed means concealed, and in this case it clearly was not.
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Old 12-05-2006, 08:22 AM   #50
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A simple solution everyone can live with: Buy a SmartCarry. Do a search in this forum... I did a review with pictures a while back.



Last edited by east_stingray; 12-05-2006 at 08:57 AM.
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