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Bond Arms Derringer vs. S&W 686 357 mag

This is a discussion on Bond Arms Derringer vs. S&W 686 357 mag within the CCW and Open Carry Talk forums, part of the Use and Training category; I have had my CHP for 25 years and at various times carried a 38 snubbie hammerless iwb, Colt Commander 1911 horiz shoulder, and 6" ...


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Old 02-03-2013, 11:08 AM   #1
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Bond Arms Derringer vs. S&W 686 357 mag

I have had my CHP for 25 years and at various times carried a 38 snubbie hammerless iwb, Colt Commander 1911 horiz shoulder, and 6" 357 revolver vert shoulder. Now a days it is usually a full size auto vert shoulder, or slim 9mm horiz shoulder or appendix carry.

I have been toying with the idea of buying a Bond Arms Derringer, specifically the 4.25" barreled Ranger in 38/357 with matching cross-draw belt holster. This two shot gun is more popular in 410/45LC, but I have a sh!t load of 38+P/357 and zero 410/45LC. This would mainly be a kit/range gun as I could order any of 16 available barrels for it from 22lr to 45acp. I like to shoot 1" target dots, so this gun would be a real challenge and might be frustrating. This gun has some potential as a self defense weapon too.

Considering the SD limitations of the Bond Arms Derringer: i.e. two round capacity, slow single action presentation, limited accuracy, and slow reloading, I decided to reconsider carrying a 357 revolver, something I have not done for a long time. Recently I have been toting my S&W 686-6 4" barrel 357 mag in an Uncle Mike's Vert Side-Kick shoulder holster (size 2) with two speed loaders. I shoot this gun very well in both fast double action and slow-aimed single action modes. That is 18rds of 357 mag on tap. The man-stopping power of the 357 mag with police is legendary. Much better than the 9mm I often carry. This shoulder rig is very comfortable for all day carry, working, driving, sitting, laying on the couch, using the bathroom, etc. The draw is fast and the reliability is excellent. Retention is very good and instinctive. It is surprisingly discreet with a jacket and prints much less than an iwb small of the back medium size auto.

I guess I could use the Derringer as a backup gun (for those rare shtf situations) or deep concealment pocket primary when I can't wear a jacket. It is a good idea to have the primary and backup share the same caliber.

Last edited by Wild Rice; 02-07-2013 at 05:33 AM.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:28 PM   #2
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Well, I'm wondering how you could carry those, since you obviously wouldn't carry any rounds in the chamber on the derringer...after all, gotta prevent those UD's! Does the IDF have a handy-dandy method of drawing, breaking the derringer open, and loading it, all in one fluid motion? Are you going to claim it's "just as fast" than having rounds loaded in the derringer as well?

Same for the revolver--obviously, again, the IDF would require that the first chamber be empty (requiring a double trigger pull in order to fire)...but, wouldn't safety require you to not carry a round under the hammer, as well?

Just wondering.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:58 PM   #3
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Have you ever handled a Bond Arms Derringer? It only shoots single action and requires thumb cocking a very stiff hammer. You have to be very deliberate with it, but you can carry it safely with both barrels chambered, hammer down. It has a rebounding hammer, retracting firing pins, and passive trigger safety so it cannot fire if dropped. It also has a manual cross bolt safety. It does have a low 2rd capacity and relatively slow reload time. Some people swear by it for concealed carry and Derringers have been in use continuously since the wild west days. The Bond Arms Derringer is a significant improvement on the traditional design as far as strength and safety. A pair of 3-1/2" 410 buckshot shells to the face would be a pretty good deterent I would think.

As far as the S&W 686, it has a transfer bar safety so it can be carried hammer down on a fully loaded cylinder and will not fire if dropped (unlike the original Colt Single Action Army). When the nypd transitioned from revolvers to auto pistols, their unintentional discharge rate went up 100 times. Not 100%, 100 times. No gun is completely safe, but a loaded modern revolver is 100 times safer than a loaded auto pistol according to the nypd.

The "Israeli carry" practiced by the IDF is empty chamber carry for auto pistols designed to reduce unintended discharges and to standardize the manual of operations across a wide array of civilian auto pistols. It is performed as a fast smooth continuous motion as part of the draw movement. Racking the slide adds less than a half second to the total draw movement. For people who have not seen it in action or not trained in it think you draw, look around, rack the slide, look around... Nope. If you are in a situation where you need to draw, you need to rack chamber, so it is practiced as a continuous movement. It has proven to be a safe and effective system in a dangerous part of the world.
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:05 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Rice View Post
Have you ever handled a Bond Arms Derringer? It only shoots single action and requires thumb cocking a very stiff hammer. You have to be very deliberate with it, but you can carry it safely with both barrels chambered, hammer down. It has a rebounding hammer, retracting firing pins, and passive trigger safety so it cannot fire if dropped. It also has a manual cross bolt safety. It does have a low 2rd capacity and relatively slow reload time. Some people swear by it for concealed carry and Derringers have been in use continuously since the wild west days. The Bond Arms Derringer is a significant improvement on the traditional design as far as strength and safety. A pair of 3-1/2" 410 buckshot shells to the face would be a pretty good deterent I would think.

As far as the S&W 686, it has a transfer bar safety so it can be carried hammer down on a fully loaded cylinder and will not fire if dropped (unlike the original Colt Single Action Army). When the nypd transitioned from revolvers to auto pistols, their unintentional discharge rate went up 100 times. Not 100%, 100 times. No gun is completely safe, but a loaded modern revolver is 100 times safer than a loaded auto pistol according to the nypd.

The "Israeli carry" practiced by the IDF is empty chamber carry for auto pistols designed to reduce unintended discharges and to standardize the manual of operations across a wide array of civilian auto pistols. It is performed as a fast smooth continuous motion as part of the draw movement. Racking the slide adds less than a half second to the total draw movement. For people who have not seen it in action or not trained in it think you draw, look around, rack the slide, look around... Nope. If you are in a situation where you need to draw, you need to rack chamber, so it is practiced as a continuous movement. It has proven to be a safe and effective system in a dangerous part of the world.

And as I pointed out before, it was designed for use by military units, not CCW--two very different things. A CCW'r doesn't have a rifle as a primary weapon. A CCW'r doesn't have a squad to back him up and engage the enemy while he draws and charges his weapon. And, the likelihood of a soldier having their assailant within 20 feet of them while doing this is also significantly lower.

You seem unable to address those simple facts.

Either way--you're still greatly raising your chances of a ND/AD/UD/whatever by having the weapon ready to fire, regardless of the weapon...seems a bit hypocritical on your part to tout the Israeli method and then not do it yourself, no?
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:08 AM   #5
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I'd run to the local 7/11 for coffee and often drop my (loaded) Bond .410 in a pocket. 000 buck is more impressive than the .410 slug.

THEN I got my first J-Frame. Guess what goes to coffee with me now.

The derringer goes on desert ATV rides and the range now, and that's about it. Niche gun that's fun to shoot until you send a 45 Colt down the pipe.
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:38 AM   #6
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I came to the same conclusions. A double barreled shotgun in the pocket would be comforting, but in 38/357 there is a chance of missing and being empty. If 2 is good, 6 is better. I am not saying I can't miss with my 686, but I am confident with it. The Bond Arms might be a good outdoors gun or a new challenge for range shooting. I really liked the feel of the one I checked out. Built like a tank. They are very popular and the model I want is sold out locally and online.
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