A Different Kinda' Chart.

[mfs]

Originally Posted by nateroach

I hate to throw fuel on the fire... but here we go. If this is referring to the test that the Army did to find a new gun of choice there is a lot of speculation surrounding the findings. First of all the M4's that they used were taken from the local army supply (not new) and a startling # of the failures were from 1 particular gun (something like 40% of the 882 failures were form one gun). Second, the other manufacturers were notified of the upcoming test and could hand pick the guns that they sent to be evaluated. Third, one of the manufacturers was allowed to re-oil (I believe the FN Scar ). There was a good writeup about the testing in a issue of special weapons for military and police that showed the results and ended with...well this test isn't all that accurate due to these circumstances.

Just my 2 cents. I'm not bashing one or the other just stating what I have read on the subject.

nateroach

I read that article and was appalled at the testing procedure. If you are going to test something and publish the results, then the playing field needs to be level.

[nikon777]

Originally Posted by nateroach

I hate to throw fuel on the fire... but here we go. If this is referring to the test that the Army did to find a new gun of choice there is a lot of speculation surrounding the findings. First of all the M4's that they used were taken from the local army supply (not new) and a startling # of the failures were from 1 particular gun (something like 40% of the 882 failures were form one gun). Second, the other manufacturers were notified of the upcoming test and could hand pick the guns that they sent to be evaluated. Third, one of the manufacturers was allowed to re-oil (I believe the FN Scar ). There was a good writeup about the testing in a issue of special weapons for military and police that showed the results and ended with...well this test isn't all that accurate due to these circumstances.

Just my 2 cents. I'm not bashing one or the other just stating what I have read on the subject.

nateroach

I don't doubt your claims for a second. The M4 when kept properly oiled is pretty reliable, even when dirty.

[slugger6]

I would like to see the AK data on there. I have never had a stoppage with mine...and I shoot it alot.

[John A.]

I have a buddy who's Department ordered a bunch of HK416's. He said they're junk. I have no reason to doubt his claim and he has no reason to lie to me about it.

He also told me they can't get H&K to give a crap about servicing them either.

I'm not talking about a small 1 or 2 gun order. This order was in excess of 200 guns if memory serves me right.

[nikon777]

Originally Posted by John A.

I have a buddy who's Department ordered a bunch of HK416's. He said they're junk. I have no reason to doubt his claim and he has no reason to lie to me about it.

He also told me they can't get H&K to give a crap about servicing them either.

I'm not talking about a small 1 or 2 gun order. This order was in excess of 200 guns if memory serves me right.

Sounds like the typical arrogant HK.

[John A.]

I don't know Nikon. I've personally never spoken with anyone there, but I don't doubt his claim. He's never lied to me before and this seems like a strange thing to lie about if this was his first.

[ORD]

I wholeheartedly believe the H&K Customer Service problems (even LE service sucks)...been that way for decades now with H&K and is consistently one of the company's biggest flaws!!!

As for the "problems" with the 416's...now that is a different story altogether. I haven't seen any reports of any function/reliability problems with the 416s whatsoever. Did he say "why" he thought they were "junk"???

[StewieGriffin]

I hate to say it, I live within driving distance of HK USA... Ashburn (ass burn), VA. and I've come across a couple of the elitist HK people that work there. I wont comment on their tudes, but my encounters with them were never pleasant.

[Krackels]

Wonder how the Masada/ACR stacks up.

[John A.]

Originally Posted by ORD

I wholeheartedly believe the H&K Customer Service problems (even LE service sucks)...been that way for decades now with H&K and is consistently one of the company's biggest flaws!!!

As for the "problems" with the 416's...now that is a different story altogether. I haven't seen any reports of any function/reliability problems with the 416s whatsoever. Did he say "why" he thought they were "junk"???

Couldn't get them all running right all at the same time. He said there were several in the lot that constantly had all sorts of various problems from feeding to cycling to ejecting problems, etc.

Pretty much luck of the draw whether you got a good one or one that simply wouldn't work right.

I'm not sure if it makes a difference but he said the special response units were issued with short barrels and he said many of them were even worse than the 16 inchers the patrol units were issued.