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6.8 or .243 For Deer Hunting

This is a discussion on 6.8 or .243 For Deer Hunting within the AR Talk forums, part of the Long Gun Talk category; I don't hate any cartridge, I just dislike BS. The -221, Fireball, Whisper, Blackout is a good subsonic performer, but simply does not possess the ...


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Old 06-07-2012, 07:27 PM   #51
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I don't hate any cartridge, I just dislike BS. The -221, Fireball, Whisper, Blackout is a good subsonic performer, but simply does not possess the case capacity or efficiency to run as fast as the others supersonic.

I use a 6.8 because it performs better from a shorter barrel. If I could build a 16in AR10 that weighed 7lbs with scope/mount & BUIS, then I'd be using .308 all the time and sell my 6.8 as it would do nothing but sit in the safe.

If I'm to be labeled as a "fanboy" then get it right & call me one for the .308W!
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Old 06-07-2012, 07:34 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
Your 30-30 velocity is from a 24 inch barrel.
Your 300 BLK velocity is correct, but it is not muzzle velocity - it is instrumental - meaning, a bit downrange. At the muzzle it is about 2250.
Your 7.62x40mm velocity is probably not at 55,000 psi pressure as when at 55,000 psi, it is about 80 fps faster than 300 BLK.
Your 6.8 SPC load is a "Tactical" load, and I am not sure it is at normal pressure. I know Hornady for sure uses normal pressure in their 6.8 loads so I tend to quote their velocities.
Sorry, but others don't have to back down from their normal operating pressures just to skew the data to suit your needs. All of the velocities listed were advertised as muzzle velocity from a 16in barrel (it did not state what kind of rifle or if it was a test barrel). They are all readily available ammo already on the market. The only that had a prerequisite was the 6.8 to be used in SPC II chambers.

If you like, I could post some of the hotter loads available for the x40 & the 6.8, but that would just widen the gap.

ETA from Hornady:
6.8SPC 120gr SST 2460fps/1612ft-lbs
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Old 06-07-2012, 08:16 PM   #53
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I don't have either 300 BLK or 6.8 SPC, yet. If you're going for suppressed, subsonic, the clear winner would be the 300 BLK.

If supersonic loads are all you're looking at, the 6.8 SPC has to out perform the 300 BLK because of the increased case capacity, provided they operate at the same pressure.

I'm probably getting a 6.8 spc upper, before too long. Looks like a really good round.

Also wondering, if you want to shoot subsonic, and supersonic 300 BLK, what twist barrel will work well with both?
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Old 06-07-2012, 08:46 PM   #54
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1:8 is right in the middle I suppose. We should really start a different thread lol
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:04 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suhkoi View Post
Then go here and figure out why theres so much hate for the 300blk from only 6.8fanboys it seems.

300BlkTalk • View topic - Why all the hate for the 300 BLK?

But I do also want to wish you luck and sorry about the mess
Interesting that you reference a forum run by RSilvers. I have no hate for a caliber either. What I dislike, much like Mike Russell stated, is the BS that is presented as fact yet is skewed to make the .300BLK look like something it isn't. RSilvers regularly goes on the 68forum comparing the 6.8 and the .300BLK and tries to claim that the .300BLK can compete with the 6.8 in performance when it really can't. Besides that, the OP actually asked information about 2 calibers and neither of them is the .300BLK. As well, the .300BLK isn't capable of the performance the OP asked about, yet you brought it up to muddy the waters. I know what you are going to say..."I was just presenting another option that maybe he didn't think about". But that's not valid because he wants performance that is SOLIDLY capable at 300 yards or better and the .300BLK is rather anemic at that distance and certainly questionable further out.

Now, as stated before, the BLK shines at subsonic & suppressed use. A relatively small gun company has developed a subsonic 6.8 that can be used as a supersonic and accurate rifle as well. It shoots a 200 grain Woodleigh .277 caliber bullet out of a 16" barrel at a solid 1000-1050 FPS AND is capable of 1 MOA accuracy with Hornady 120 SST factory supersonic ammo. I'd say the .300BLK might start sweating now...
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:20 PM   #56
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But I was just presenting another option that maybe he didn't think about.

From seeing the penetration and how it expands at 300 it seems capable. I guess another reason is b/c I dont shoot 200 yards even so thats what id use hence the suggestion and more flavor! Or maybe to take ammo cost into account ect. Its all up to the op, all i did was ask him and it got a bit carried away.
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:40 PM   #57
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either is sufficient.

Im not one to jump on the latest cartridge. The .300 Blk is getting a lot of hype right now. I'll wait a bit to see how it shakes out. Kinda funny tho, we are back around to big and slow after the speed demon days of the 50's and 60's....
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:48 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
The 6.8 ammo velocity is from a 24 inch barrel. 300 BLK velocities are from a 16 inch barrel.
In that big 3 gun competition you were posting pictures of a while back touting how excellent the blackout round is, how long is that barrel to get it to the point that it could be used? I'm pretty certain that isn't a 16 inch barrel




No intention to disrespect Mr. Horner. He did a fantastic job through the course. Then again, he's so good that he could've probably still won using a sling shot. But weilding a gun this long, certainly says a lot about his ability. I'm sure most everyone here would agree with that.

Just for disclosure, if you provide a reply, I wont' see it unless someone quotes it. That's the only bad thing about ignore lists.
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Old 06-07-2012, 10:50 PM   #59
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Why in the world was a 4 year old thread resurrected???

Quote:
Originally Posted by John A. View Post
Even at 68 forums, I have heard this a lot, but the 1:10 twist and SPCII chamber does quite well in some respects that the slower barrels struggle with.

Namely for handloaders who prefer to use heavier .270 (err .277) bullets that are not commercially available for the 6.8.

So I suppose it depends on what you want to do with it.
Well, the OP was going to use it for deer hunting, so that's the purpose of the thread. For hunting, anything over 130gr will eat into the cartridge space making for less powder, which reduces velocities even more.

Quote:
True that the 3 or 4 groove barrels and 11 or 12 twist rate barrel combined with the improved chamber (SPCII) lower velocity to allow you to shoot hotter (combat/tactical/commercial) loads at slightly higher velocities in comparison to try to push how many fps you can get out of the gun, but there are other factors that many people don't normally consider.

Most 6.8 commercial loads are between 85 gr min to 120 gr max. And why the 11 or 12 twist barrels are the most common because they do better with the lighter loads
Because for hunting, those have shown to be optimal weights and still keep the velocity high.

Quote:
But the faster 1:10 twist rate will stabilize up to 160 gr available 270 bullets if you can get the oal to fit the magazine and for those that prefer the heavy hard hitters, or those who use suppressors tend to like the faster twist barrels because they can use heavier bullets to get the speed down closer to subsonic levels.
160gr bullet in an AR-magazine length OAL?? Now, a bolt-action 6.8, sure, since you can load longer. The OP wasn't asking about a bolt-action 6.8. He was asking about a 6.8 upper for an AR-15, so the max OAL would be 2.3in. The 160gr bullets eat too much cartridge space and vastly reduce powder capacity. This is fine if you're shooting subsonic rounds, but that's not for hunting unless you're in the middle of thick underbrush with a very short sightline. In places like I hunt on KS farms, that would be counter produtive since a deer could pop out at 35yds, or meander into a field at 400yds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
The 6.8 ammo velocity is from a 24 inch barrel. 300 BLK velocities are from a 16 inch barrel.
SSA velocites are from a 16" barrel, and they put the .300BLK to shame.

.300BO 125gr OTM 2250fps/1360ft-lb
SSA 6.8 110gr Accubond 2630fps/1692ft-lbs.

.300BO 125gr OTM 2250fps/1360ft-lb
Hornady 6.8 120gr SST 2460fps/1612ft-lbs (yes, from a 16" barrel)
The .300BO muzzle velocity is the same as the Hornady 120 SST at 100yds.
And this is with your favorite company to quote velocities from...

Oh, let's try this one!
.300BO 125gr OTM 2250fps/1360ft-lbs
6.8mm SPC 140gr VLD Berger 2401fps/1802ft-lbs
Energy down-range exceeds 500 foot pounds at 800 yards. What's the downrange energy of the .300BO at 800yds?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
Your 6.8 SPC load is a "Tactical" load, and I am not sure it is at normal pressure.
Don't give me that crap. You've stirred the pot over on 68forums.com enough to know that SSA's "Tactical" loads are within normal pressures. Quit being so disingenuous.

Quote:
I know Hornady for sure uses normal pressure in their 6.8 loads so I tend to quote their velocities.
Hornady loads slower than SSA and that makes your round look better compared to the 6.8. How convenient for you...

No one disagrees that the .300BO is a fine CQB/subsonic round. Just quit trying to make it look like something it isn't.
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Old 06-07-2012, 10:55 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loonybin View Post
Why in the world was a 4 year old thread resurrected???
Holy crap!!! I didn't catch that (I usually do). It was resurrected by a first time poster, so he must have done a search.

Good info loonybin.
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