Talk to me about optics now

[longtalltechsan]

If you want an aimpoint, why not get a SPOT MKIII aimpoint clone scope? I have read really good reviews on them about taking a beating and holding zero. Plus you could take the extra money and buy a knockoff magnifier and mount. It doesn't sound like you need something battle ready, just something good that will do the job. The SPOT goes for about $150.

[Badshot]

The differences between the SPOT and AP are truly noticed in the quality of the glass and secondarily the body.

Something else to consider is the DMS-1, great reviews, gives you 1-4x variable magnification and the reviews are excellent. It's on my list for the next optic.

[Hooz]

Originally Posted by Badshot

The differences between the SPOT and AP are truly noticed in the quality of the glass and secondarily the body.

Something else to consider is the DMS-1, great reviews, gives you 1-4x variable magnification and the reviews are excellent. It's on my list for the next optic.

I bought a Millet DMS-1 a while ago... The BEST CQB optic system there is (IMNSHO ). And the price ($230ish) is hard to beat.

[dave2184]

I've got an aimpoint and mount listed in the trading post here.

[EricCartmann]

Originally Posted by Badshot

The differences between the SPOT and AP are truly noticed in the quality of the glass and secondarily the body.

Something else to consider is the DMS-1, great reviews, gives you 1-4x variable magnification and the reviews are excellent. It's on my list for the next optic.

Paid $240 for mine shipped from Midway. Best value in optics ever.

[EricCartmann]

Here is my canned answer for this:

1-4x optic (IOR, Millet, Nightforce, Horus, Leupold, etc):
I use to think these were the best of all worlds but now I am thinking they are just a compromise. All 1-4x optic are bulky and kinda cumbersome. There is really only 2 settings you use it on, 1x and 4x. In 1x mode they don't have infininate eye relief like an Aimpoint or Eotech. But then again, if you know where your cheeks got to be you don't need that infininate eye relief. In 4x mode they beat an ACOG in the eye relief dept, but that's it. ACOG's have larger field of views than all 1-4x optics, and ACOGs are a helll of a lot more durable.



Aimpoint:
I have the ML2 with 4 MOA dot. The more I use it the more I like it. There are some draw backs though, In bright sunlight, the dot is hard to see, and in quick CQB situatations, it takes a little more concentration to notice the dot than the ring of the Eotech. For longer distances, such as anything past 100 yards, the dot is too big and just floods the whole target. Kinda like the way irons do. If you are use to shooting irons this is no big deal but for me I like my target to be bigger than my site. The Aimpoint may have some weaknesses but overall it is still a great optic. It is bombproof, waterproof to 60ft, and you can leave it on for a whole year before batteries run out (5 years if you get the ML3). If you get one you will like it.


Eotech:
Nothing is faster than a Eotech. That 65 MOA ring makes it effortless for CQB. For long distance shooting the 1 MOA center dot is great for precision work. For CQB nothing beats an Eotech. For distances, Eotech easily beats out the Aimpoint. Draw back to Eotech is battery life. Eotech claims 1100 hours, but I am seeing more like 200 hours for alkaline batteries. Also Eotech claims the Eotech is only water proof to 10 ft, while Aimpoint claims 75 feet, but I have not thrown either in the water to confirm. Lastly the Aimpoint just seems better built (but this is purely speculation on my part, time will tell).


4X ACOG:
I like magnification and for me nothing gets better for an M4 than an ACOG. Even if you have eagle eyes, there are things you can see at 50 yards with mag that you will not be able to see with the Naked eye. ACOG has large field of view, a compact package, uses no batteries, and is durable as hell. ACOG's work great for anything past 25 yards. For such a compact package, you also get decent magnification. Once you use the glass on an ACOG, it is hard to go back to anything else. ACOG's don't work that great for CQB, but the way I have my M4 set up, I have a laser pointer (TLR2) for anything 25 yards or less. Some think a visible laser is kinda mall ninjaish... but I like them. My favorite ACOG so far is the TA11 series with BAC because of the longer eye relief and BAC makes the thing very fast.



ACOG with DOC optic.
I sampled a DOC optic on top of an ACOG at a gun show. To me this is truly the best of all worlds. The eye relief of a DOC is infinate like an Aimpoint. Only thing I question about the DOC, is I am not sure if it is as durable as an Eotech, Aimpoint, or even the ACOG it sits on.


High Powered optic such as a 3.5-10X Leupold:
Just like my variable optic, I only use it on 2 settings. At 3.5x and at 10x. Most of the time I just use it at the lowest setting but it is nice to have the 10x capability as it is always nice to be able to identify targets at 300 yards. However, this is way too much scope for an M4, way too heavy, and just way overkill.



Aimpoint/Eotech + magnifier:
I don't own one magnifier so really can't get too in depth about this. However, to me this option is also somewhat of a compromise. I got to try this setup once and notice the glass was not that clear and I have seen cheap $200 optics with much better glass quality. The Magnifier itself was not the problem, nor the Aimpoint.. it is when you put both of them together. Also another drawback of this set up is it weighs a ton.

[KingAirDriver]

Cartman,

Thanks for that write-up! Very informative!

[f0cker]

Originally Posted by EricCartmann

4X ACOG:
I like magnification and for me nothing gets better for an M4 than an ACOG. Even if you have eagle eyes, there are things you can see at 50 yards with mag that you will not be able to see with the Naked eye. ACOG has large field of view, a compact package, uses no batteries, and is durable as hell. ACOG's work great for anything past 25 yards. For such a compact package, you also get decent magnification. Once you use the glass on an ACOG, it is hard to go back to anything else. ACOG's don't work that great for CQB, but the way I have my M4 set up, I have a laser pointer (TLR2) for anything 25 yards or less. Some think a visible laser is kinda mall ninjaish... but I like them. My favorite ACOG so far is the TA11 series with BAC because of the longer eye relief and BAC makes the thing very fast.



ACOG with DOC optic.
I sampled a DOC optic on top of an ACOG at a gun show. To me this is truly the best of all worlds. The eye relief of a DOC is infinate like an Aimpoint. Only thing I question about the DOC, is I am not sure if it is as durable as an Eotech, Aimpoint, or even the ACOG it sits on.

I've got the TA31DOC and I love it. I didn't know how I'd like the cheek weld when using the Docter red dot, but at the ranges I'd use the Docter at it's all instinctive positioning of the gun, the Docter just shows me exactly where I'm aiming. If you've got the cash, IMO you can't beat a ACOG with Docter optic.

[Liquid Rhino]

Originally Posted by EricCartmann

The Magnifier itself was not the problem, nor the Aimpoint.. it is when you put both of them together. Also another drawback of this set up is it weighs a ton.

+1 Amen to that!

Don't get me wrong I really like this type of setup, too - very fast & gives you options! You don't notice the added weight too much when handling for shots, but carry it around it for an extended period and you'll wish you'd have a lighter setup. Whenever I strip my rail and shoot w/ irons, it feels like a little slice of heaven.

[scalce]

DMS GenII and a LaRue SPR-E is on it's way to my house.

I can't wait.

For range fun and 3 Gun I don't think I will find a cheaper or more effective setup.