Upgrades you need.

[street cruiser]

Originally Posted by 120mm

If you're talking about the external parts of your weapon, you are right. If you're talking internals, you're not right. In drier dustier conditions, you need more oil to lubricate parts, assist in cooling parts, and helping lift dirt and grit from between low clearance moving parts.

The "run it dry" or "just a little will do" myths are just that, MYTHS. (Myths that were initiated and continue to be propagated by the US Army, obtw...) Reliability studies show that liberal (defined as the maximum oil that will adhere to a part without sagging and dripping off) lubrication is best for dry and dusty conditions.

See www.m4carbine.net for more details.

Thanks for the info and website 120. I am always looking for good info regarding my rifle. As far as the lube and maintenance issues it sounds like whatever works best for one's individual uses. It's good see you and Nikon discuss this issue as it presents valid points of view that provide great info on how to service one's rifle.

[ScottyPotty]

Originally Posted by Badshot

Or maybe I'm just an internet ass hole..

Haha.......I think your on to something there


JK.........good post

[nikon777]

Originally Posted by Badshot

That's about the worst analogy for this situation as I've seen yet.

Actually the analogy is spot on. Your car can run on less than the recommended amount of oil for the engine. However I can guarantee you'll see more wear than on a engine run with the proper amount of oil. Also what conditions did you perform your little test in? Shooting at the local air conditioned range doesn't count.

Originally Posted by Badshot

I can and will attest to running my AR's dry.. not always bone dry (just some times),

Again, try that with your car. Why would you run any machine with metal to metal contact bone dry?

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread....eapon+cleaning

[Badshot]

Originally Posted by nikon777

Actually the analogy is spot on. Your car can run on less than the recommended amount of oil for the engine. However I can guarantee you'll see more wear than on a engine run with the proper amount of oil. Also what conditions did you perform your little test in? Shooting at the local air conditioned range doesn't count.



Again, try that with your car. Why would you run any machine with metal to metal contact bone dry?

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread....eapon+cleaning

I liken it far more to not oiling the chain on your bike, but hey analogize anyway you feel you need to in order to make your point. Catastrophic failure will occur far sooner proportionately in a car than it will in the AR. I think the original analogy is exaggerated at the very least, but very much in line with what an old E-7 once told me.. more like twice but I was a hard headed private.

As for the conditions... about 8,000Ft., partly cloudy w/ intermittent rain showers (clouds were hauling ass across the sky so we'd get rain for 15 minutes or so then sunny again) started out at about 45 degrees and was about 60 when we finished, 10-15mph winds gusting to 30 running west to east across the field. All said and told a lovely Rocky Mountains kinda day. Add to that all of the ground smeg blowing around, I actually found myself wiping pine needs and small pieces of bark out of both chambers fairly often. Damn wind jacked up some of my 250+ meter shots.

As for why.. well why not? I'm not arguing that you shouldn't lube the weapon, just saying that it will indeed function and function for a fair while without it. Maybe I'm just being far too much of a devil's advocate here.

[PackerfanXD]

The wetter the better. Goes for almost anything mechanical.

[T.J.]

Originally Posted by nikon777

Sorry but youre dead wrong. If you want to run your rifle that way, then go ahead. When your rifle seizes up when you need it most then maybe youll change your stance.

and exactly what dusty and gritty conditions are the average citizen commandos going to be in that will require days and days of continues fighting

Originally Posted by nikon777

Its called preventative maintenance. when the BG is in your house at 3am and your extractor fails, its too late. Why wait till something breaks?

and your standard preventative maintenance would also limit the possibility of this

Originally Posted by nikon777

So with your logic, its not needed for the manufacturer to test fire pistols and rifles from the factory either. Since just because they worked when they were test fired doesnt mean theyll work later on after youve purchased them.

anyone one who buys a gun for any type of home home or personal defense and does not personally check the for dependability an reliability is a fool, if if i was to purchase a $2k wilson i would never trust that it would perform straight out of the box, most high dollar 1911s require some fine tuning and a break in period before they are reliable. never carry a weapon that has not proven its self to be reliable

Originally Posted by nikon777

I think "shtf" is self explanatory.

a typical "shtf" for the average joe defending his home and family is totally different that a soldier taking a stand in a military conflict. after all the odds of any of actually encountering a SHTF condition is extremely small as compared to a soldier standing a post in the middle east

Originally Posted by Badshot

Or maybe I'm just an internet ass hole..

aren't we all

Originally Posted by PackerfanXD

The wetter the better. Goes for almost anything mechanical.

then why do automakers advise against adding to much oil to your car.

Originally Posted by nikon777

Also what conditions did you perform your little test in? Shooting at the local air conditioned range doesn't count.

why would it not count the in the event that any of encounter a SHTF situation it is most likely going to happen in this type of environment not out in the middle of a dust bowl. and is very likely not going to last very long.


as i said before i am anal retentive and methodical about cleaning and maintaining my guns. the first thing after a range trip is clean and lubricate them even if i am not shooting my weapons are cleaned and lubricated on a regular basis as most solvents will continue to bring up carbon and fouling for several days after you use it.

i would never run any of my weapons bone dry thats just bad mojo. while i was in the army we were given the so called propaganda about lightly oiling and like most here that served will contest to, for the limited shooting we did a light coat of oil was sufficient the average GI will most likely shoot less than 100 rounds range session. barring a skirmish in which case they may shoot 300-400 rounds most GIs will stay within 100 round session.

[PackerfanXD]

Originally Posted by T.J.

then why do automakers advise against adding to much oil to your car.

They certainly don't run them dry.

[hardwarz]

Originally Posted by PackerfanXD

They certainly don't run them dry.

Never have we said run them dry. Only what the M16 manual states. Light coat.

Hardwarz

[PackerfanXD]

Originally Posted by hardwarz

Never have we said run them dry. Only what the M16 manual states. Light coat.

Hardwarz

Originally Posted by PackerfanXD

The wetter the better. Goes for almost anything mechanical.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. You guys run your ARs the way you want but I'll run mine wet.

[nikon777]

Yaaawwwwn.. So, im back. Who won the pissing match??