Upgrades you need.

[120mm]

Originally Posted by hardwarz

Wet? Might be too much. Too much oil will have dirt/sand/etc stick to it. Lightly coated should be more accurate.


Hardwarz

This is wrong. It has been proven wrong by multiple scientific studies, such as the DTIC study of the M16E2, as well as the recent study by DoD. It is b.s. which is unfortunately propagated by the military, as well.

Oil serves to lubricate, cool and TO LIFT AND REMOVE FOREIGN MATTER from between tightly clearanced parts. The foreign matter that "sticks" to moving, tightly clearanced parts, is immediately removed by the lube and the wiping action of the part.

If you are still concerned with dirt and foreign matter (which is mostly a problem with DRY ARs) run a shoot-through barrel plug, keep your mag-well full, keep your dust-cover closed, etc..

By liberal lube, we mean wet to the point where it doesn't drip, but you can "draw in it" with your finger.

[hardwarz]

From my days in 3/2/I (USMC) we were always taught light lube. It worked for me then and it works fine for my AR.

I've never seen the DTIC study of the M16E2. Heck, what's an E2? We had M16A2s. We had M60E3s.

Hardwarz

[nikon777]

Originally Posted by hardwarz

Define SHTF. Terrorists? BG during a B&E? Katrina and the wave? Zombies?


Checking proper stake, ok. I agree.


Why? Truthfully, if your system is running fine (and it is a "system") then why mess with it?


Again, why? I've had the O-ring put too much force and actually start to rub the extrator raw where it rubs up against the inside of the BCG. If it works 100% of the time, don't mess with it. If you're having failours dealing with your extractor, then start looking into this area and make upgrades accordingly.


3rd Why? My factory BCG is 100%. Chrome might be nice for the fact of cleaning, but other than that, having it tested doesn't mean it won't fail.


Wet? Might be too much. Too much oil will have dirt/sand/etc stick to it. Lightly coated should be more accurate.

Listen up everyone, if your weapon is 100% and you have faith in it, leave it alone.

Never add a bunch of upgrades during a weekend and then go shooting. One or maybe 2 upgrades per shoting session. Gain trust in each upgrade instead of a bunch of upgrades that you'll have to troubleshoot and lose faith in your weapon.

Run rounds through your weapon. Do you trust her? Upgrade only when necessary or when a specific job is at hand. (ie: heading to Iraq as a contractor or heading to the mountains for an extended stay.)

Everyone's main upgrades should be stocking up on ammunition and GOOD mags. Number your mags, make notes of which ones have problems and get rid of them.

Hardwarz

Sorry but youre dead wrong. If you want to run your rifle that way, then go ahead. When your rifle seizes up when you need it most then maybe youll change your stance.

Never add a bunch of upgrades during a weekend and then go shooting. One or maybe 2 upgrades per shoting session. Gain trust in each upgrade instead of a bunch of upgrades that you'll have to troubleshoot and lose faith in your weapon.
Upgrade only when necessary or when a specific job is at hand. (ie: heading to Iraq as a contractor or heading to the mountains for an extended stay.)

Its called preventative maintenance. when the BG is in your house at 3am and your extractor fails, its too late. Why wait till something breaks? You dont have to be "heading off to Iraq" before you employ these upgrades. If this is your home defense or fighting rifle, then its just as important to make these upgrades immediately. Thats like saying theres no need to test fire the new JHP ammunition in your XD 45 carry pistol because you dont go into bad neighborhoods. Besides, many of the upgrades I mention can in no way affect function in a negative way, only positive. Such as staking the gas key and castle nut, and upgrading to a stronger/tested bolt and bolt carrier. Obviously one would test fire the weapon after performing any upgrades to it. The only upgrade that isnt completely mandatory from the list would be the H buffer.

3rd Why? My factory BCG is 100%. Chrome might be nice for the fact of cleaning, but other than that, having it tested doesn't mean it won't fail.

So with your logic, its not needed for the manufacturer to test fire pistols and rifles from the factory either. Since just because they worked when they were test fired doesnt mean theyll work later on after youve purchased them. Sure, a properly tested bolt can still fail. However if your life depended on the rifle, would you rather have one thats been tested for durability before it left the factory, or one that hasnt?

I think "shtf" is self explanatory. Sure if your rifle is a plinker then shoot it box stock if you want. If your buying/building a fighting rifle then the upgrades will certainly help reliability.

[nikon777]

Originally Posted by hardwarz

From my days in 3/2/I (USMC) we were always taught light lube.

Yes, and as 120mm has mentioned in several posts, that info you were taught is wrong. Talk to Pat Rogers and others about it.

[hardwarz]

I'm going to start off with saying that I'm not looking to get into name calling or starting flame wars.

Originally Posted by nikon777

Yes, and as 120mm has mentioned in several posts, that info you were taught is wrong. Talk to Pat Rogers and others about it.

I know what I was taught, it works fine. You want to run yours a different way, fine.

Originally Posted by nikon777

Sorry but youre dead wrong. If you want to run your rifle that way, then go ahead. When your rifle seizes up when you need it most then maybe youll change your stance.

That's fine. When I was in, my weapon had light lube as instructed, it worked flawlessly (san encounters with gritty sand from NC) Currently I go though about 800-1000 rounds per month. Light lube... guess what, no problems, no seizing.

Originally Posted by nikon777

Have you ever heard of preventative maintenance? when the BG is in your house at 3am and your extractor fails, its too late. Why wait till something breaks, thats just not smart. Besides many of the upgrades I mention can in no way affect function. Such as staking the gas key and castle nut, and upgrading to a stronger/tested bolt and bolt carrier. Obviously one would test fire the weapon after performing any upgrades to it. The only upgrade that isnt completely mandatory from the list would be the H buffer.

Gas key.. ok i agree (again)
Castle nut will not come off if torqued correctly. Lug nuts won't come off on your car if they are correctly torqued. That's why they have torque specs. Don't like to torque it to the correct specified ft/lbs? Don't have a torque wrench? Fine, put a drop of locktite on it.

Originally Posted by nikon777

So with your logic, its not needed for the manufacturer to test fire pistols and rifles from the factory then. Since just because they worked when they were test fired doesnt mean theyll work later on after youve purchased them. Sure, a properly tested bolt can still fail. However if your life depended on the rifle, would you rather have one thats been tested before it left the factory, or one that hasnt?

With your logic, when you buy something new it immediately has to have upgrades just in case? You should run with a stock rifle and figure out what you need to upgrade from there. That way you avoid adding a bunch of CRAP on your weapon.

I've seen too many people try to troubleshoot their weapon after adding a bunch of parts. Hours, days & weeks spent waisted only to bring the weapon back to the original and add one part into the system at a time.

Originally Posted by nikon777

I think "shtf" is self explanatory. Sure if your rifle is a plinker then shoot it box stock if you want. If your buying/building a fighting rifle then the upgrades will certainly help reliability.

To me an all around SHTF weapon should be a KISS gun. Other than that, you may have specific situation weapons. SBR for room clearing, long free float barrel for long range, etc. situation defines weapon usage. I'm not going to bring a MK19 into a room clearing.

BTW, I'm done with this thread. I'm not got to argue with anyone over the internet.

Hardwarz

[nikon777]

No argument here. Thats the beauty of freedom of speech. I have my views, you have yours. Thanks for the alternative thoughts and opinions. No hard feelings man.


zak

[hardwarz]

Originally Posted by nikon777

No argument here. Thats the beauty of freedom of speech. I have my views, you have yours. Thanks for the alternative thoughts and opinions. No hard feelings man.


zak

+1 no hard feelings.

Hardwarz

BTW, if someone wants to post the DTIC study of the M16E2, I'd be happy to read it.

[T.J.]

i think staking down the pin and the castle nut, sound like good ideas, if the H buffer helps absorb a significant amount of recoil go for it. if you want your bolt dripping with oil great if he wants his just lightly coated thats fine for him,

but come on to start the what could happen in a bad situation to make it worse you could have all your pins staked down, you could have the locktied, you can have the MP tested bolt. and the perfect amount of lube (whatever it that you desire) and right in the middle of that bad situation you could encounter a pop no kick ( for those of you not familiar with the term its when the primer detonates but there is not sufficient compression to push the bullet tip out of the barrel of the gun and leaves you with an obstructed barrel) essentially leaving you up sh!5 creek with out the proverbial paddle. which is just as likely to happen as castle nut coming off or your rifle seizing within the 100 rounds that you MIGHT shoot.

preventative maintenance is insuring that you rifle is cleaned, free of obstructions, has all the appropriate parts in place and is in good working condition when it is put away,

[120mm]

Originally Posted by hardwarz

+1 no hard feelings.

Hardwarz

BTW, if someone wants to post the DTIC study of the M16E2, I'd be happy to read it.

The problem is, it's FOUO. Though the Marine Lieutenant Colonel who supervised the tests as commented publicly on it.

Here are some other links, though, for additional lernin'

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=31

http://www.vickerstactical.com/Tips/weaponlubrication.htm

http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Definitions/galvanic-series.htm

The last link is for the folks who like graphite.

Here's a tip: Next time you're driving across the desert, drain all the oil from your car but 1 quart. It should help you "not attract so much dust and grit."

Trust me. I heard it from an ole sergeant....

[Badshot]

Originally Posted by 120mm

Here's a tip: Next time you're driving across the desert, drain all the oil from your car but 1 quart. It should help you "not attract so much dust and grit."

That's about the worst analogy for this situation as I've seen yet. I can and will attest to running my AR's dry.. not always bone dry (just some times), but with an absolute minimum of CLP and having done so for more than 1k rounds at a time.. oh yeah.. between cleanings too. Next thing I'm expecting to hear out of this thread is that you should be lubing your mag springs.

This weekend I ran my two M4geries in opposite conditions.. one was "wet" one was dry. I did that because of this thread actually, just to see for myself how my weapons handled it when I was actually paying attention to the actual lubrication applied. Both had moderate cleaning last week of just the BCG, and 500-ish rounds each later, no fricken difference in performance. Both are still running fine, both are still dead on accurate, both have about the same amount of crud build up. Is that a super valid test, not really... it's not an endurance test by any means, but it does go to show that they weapon will handle it. Matter of fact, and I think it was at Lightfighter where I read this.. there was someone torture testing his M4gery and was some where near 10K rounds running dry the last time I saw the thread. I think he might be cleaning it a bit more often than I clean my AR's, but the fact is that the AR will run dry. I will end this portion with saying that if you run your AR dry, expect parts failure sooner than those who properly lubricate their AR's. If you wonder what proper is.. read the M-16 operators manual.

Most of Nikkon's recommendations are sound but by no means a requirement. It's all just starting to seem like evangelism from both Nikkon and 120mm... You guys aren't exactly wrong, but you're not completely right either. I happily and with the fullest confidence place my family and my safety in the operation of my weapons, oddly I've never needed to go over board on the internals, 99% of the factory parts are perfectly fine. I don't buy crappy AR's, but I don't buy "top tier" either.

Most of the parts in question are already staked where needed. I don't think the damn castle nut needs to be staked.. yeah try undoing that crap when you bend the buffer tube and need to pull that bad boy off. Just make sure it's on there nice and tight and if you have a worry, put some loctite on it.

I disagree about the heavy buffer in a semi-auto as well, but hey it's your money. Personally I laugh at folks that get them and or the hydro buffers for semi-auto's. But it isn't my money being spent. The o-ring for the extractor.. blah, maybe I'm just lucky that in 10's of thousands of rounds over the last 15 years that none of my weapons have failed in these area's, maybe I'm just the exception to the rule.. maybe I just make sure my weapons work and are maintained. Or maybe I'm just an internet ass hole..