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Piston AR LWRC or PWS

This is a discussion on Piston AR LWRC or PWS within the AR Talk forums, part of the Long Gun Talk category; I want to keep this simple: this is my end of the world gun. I want a piston driven AR. Dont say ak-47, I have ...


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Old 01-15-2012, 11:05 PM   #1
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Piston AR LWRC or PWS

I want to keep this simple: this is my end of the world gun. I want a piston driven AR.

Dont say ak-47, I have one
Dont say good direct impingement AR-15, I have 2, one of them being a Larue OBR predatAR.

Whats important to me? Reliability with any ammo and light weight.

I'm looking at two right now. The LWRC M6A2 SPR and the PWS MK116. The LWRC seems to be the more accurate, and the PWS comes in at a few less ounces. Shooting sub MOA at 300 yards is not my concern with this rifle. Lightweight, reliability and the ability to shoot crap ammo is.

I have and am still considering:
Bushmaster ACR
SCAR 16
Additionally I'm not opposed to thoughts on bullpups such as the Steyr AUG or the MSAR.
Also the HK 416 upper on a spikes tactical lower.

Cost is a non issue. However, I refuse to pay knights armament money for a weapon.

Your thoughts, experience and advice is appreciated.


Thanks.
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Old 01-15-2012, 11:12 PM   #2
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I have nothing to offer you except that I am interested in finding out about a similar weapon. I wish you best of luck on the search and free bump
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Old 01-16-2012, 12:29 AM   #3
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Well, when it was my money, I chose a SIG516 and I'm 100% happy. I wanted an AR, my first, and I liked the idea of a piston gun. The H&K 416 was one I was thinking about for sure, however in addition to not being a fan of the price (though it was within budget), I'm not a fan of the way H&K seems to treat civilian shooters, and the proprietary nature of some parts (like it doesn't work with PMAGs).

Then I found out about the SIG516. Basically Sig wants in the AR market. Best as I understand, they hired the 416 designer away from H&K to make it. I was everything I wanted in an AR: Piston driven, quad rails, nice stock furniture (Magpul MOE), standard compatible everything (except piston system, those are always proprietary) and so on, all from a manufacturer I trust. Also comes with the features that the "AR snobs" tend to like such as 1/7 twist, M4 feed ramps, chrome lined, hammer forged, barrel, H buffer, and so on. Near as I can tell there is no difference between civilian and LE/mil versions other than the lack of select fire.

Then the best part: It was $1300 from riflegear.com.

I was sold, and I love the thing. It works great, is well designed, and I'm confident that should it need repairs, Sig will be around to repair it. So far I've done little to it other than buy it an EOTech, a RVG, and a bunch of PMAGs. Eventually I may give it a new trigger, it ships with the standard mil-spec single stage trigger which isn't bad or anything but could be better. Overall though I like what it comes with stock. Not top of the line custom or anything, but quite nice. I love the quad rails in particular.

You can see Sig's info on it here. Note that it comes with flip up BUIS these days, not that little red dot. They also have a pretty cool
where they beat the crap out of one (that has allegedly already shot 20,000 rounds).

So that's my two Internet cents. Not long ago I wanted a piston AR, and the SIG516 was what I opted to get. I'm very happy with that choice.
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:16 AM   #4
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Of Piston designs out right now my favorite are the RRA PDS and the Scar 16. Both designs the bolt and the piston are one piece. I find this to be a better system when thinking about end of the world guns because the action requires less parts in order to work. Also I've never been a fan of small springs in the hottest part of my rifle like conventional pistons require. I will say that lack of parts for the RRA PDS and Scar 16 could be problematic for you though.
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Old 01-16-2012, 11:32 AM   #5
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I have a PWS Mk114.

LWRC uses a short stroke and mid-stroke piston system that can be prone to carrier tilt issues and, for a piston gun, is a little harder on parts. I have heard they have some CS issues. Not sure if those ever got resolved. From what I can tell the LWRC guns are essentially a piston conversion type rifle.

PWS uses an AK style long stroke piston that is part of the BCG and it all pulls out the back upon disassembly. PWS is a newer company to the AR market but in the short time I've had mine I really enjoy it. Its like owning an AR with the DNA of the AK. Very little felt recoil makes for some very fast follow on shots. Since I haven't had mine very long, here is a link to someone who's been beating the crap out of a PWS. The PWS system was intended to be piston driven from the beginning.

PWS Mk114
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Old 01-16-2012, 04:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandal View Post
I have a PWS Mk114.

LWRC uses a short stroke and mid-stroke piston system that can be prone to carrier tilt issues and, for a piston gun, is a little harder on parts. I have heard they have some CS issues. Not sure if those ever got resolved. From what I can tell the LWRC guns are essentially a piston conversion type rifle.

PWS uses an AK style long stroke piston that is part of the BCG and it all pulls out the back upon disassembly. PWS is a newer company to the AR market but in the short time I've had mine I really enjoy it. Its like owning an AR with the DNA of the AK. Very little felt recoil makes for some very fast follow on shots. Since I haven't had mine very long, here is a link to someone who's been beating the crap out of a PWS. The PWS system was intended to be piston driven from the beginning.

PWS Mk114

Thanks, this is the kind of info I was looking for.
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Old 01-16-2012, 08:31 PM   #7
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ok, after further research and some suggestions here, the LWRC is out, and Sycraft, I am a sucker for those torture test videos.

Vandal, is the handguard on your PWS a midlength? Its hard for me to tell.

I like the Sig 516. Some things that "seem" attractive are the adjustable gas block and the hammer forged chrome lined barrel. Some things that seem unattractive are the weight 7lb 10oz unloaded, the short stroke gas system, and what looks to be a carbine length handguard, which I dont know that I could put something longer or even low pro, and if I could, could I do it without sacraficing even more ounces.

PWS seems to have the edge here to me, and I could be wrong in my assumption. Facts that I know are that its lightweight 6lb 15oz (this is way more important than accuracy to me), that it comes with more upgrades, and treated internals (whatever that means). What I dont know is if it is a midlength handguard at a minimum. I also dont know what isonite QPQ treated means on a SS barrel.

I hold the rifle with my support hand forward, and I dont have incredibly long arms, so a midlength would be sufficient, but the minimum as well. I dont need a ton of rails as I run my rifles pretty slim. At most on this will be a AFG and maybe a flashlight.

I want the same operational function, ergonomics, and light weight as my Larue predatar, but the reliability of a AK. Not sure this is possible, but I still want it non the less. I still havent ruled out the SCAR and the ACR, but they dont seem as attractive to me as something like the PWS.

Thanks for your feedback thus far.
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Old 01-16-2012, 08:51 PM   #8
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LWRC uses a short stroke system. I'm not sure what a "mid-stroke" is.
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:57 PM   #9
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LuckyStrike i will get back to you when i get home from work with more info. The rails are pretty slightly longer than mid-length. They are also replaceable one side at a time Comes with MagPul sights and XT rail covers.
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Old 01-16-2012, 10:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandal View Post
LuckyStrike i will get back to you when i get home from work with more info. The rails are pretty slightly longer than mid-length. They are also replaceable one side at a time Comes with MagPul sights and XT rail covers.
Thanks, I think I'm pretty much sold on the MK116, and that piece of information is my last key ingredient I think. I looked at the MK114, but the pinned flash hider turns me off. I may bite the bullet later this year and spend the time with an attorney to get an SBR and suppressors, but for now, I'd rather not deal with NFA crap.
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