Storing Ammo (burying?) (PVC?)

[pleasantguywhopacksAXD]

Originally Posted by griz

As an electrician, I have buried a LOT of PVC pipe over the years. I have also dug up a LOT of PVC conduit/pipe over the years. Almost NONE of it was dry. Seems that no matter how careful you are to PVC cement all the joints, water will get in whether due to condensation or leaking. Personally, I would not trust any form of PVC tube to keep my valuables safe and dry over long periods underground.

Grey pvc conduit is relatively brittle. Hardly any crush resistance, Sch 40 is. Most people simply do not know how to properly clean and glue PVC, it should till be wet from cleaner when glue is applied.

Our company hires a electrician for the electric work on installation of sanitary ejection pumps. I don't think I have ever seen him use cleaner on conduit. Is that common?

As for condensation , your conduit is open at some point (end), nothing is sealed as in pressure pipe. Conduit lays in a trench for days uncovered waiting on a trench inspection sometimes. If it rains or the trench is wet from ground water, it gets past that electrical tape that gets put over the ends before you pull wire.

If pressure PVC was that bad there would be
leaks everywhere in every house and the world wouldn't be using it. It just isn't common for leaks in that application. Some jurisdictions actually require pulling a vacuum or pressure test on sch 40. It will hold if done right.

Conduit and scd 40 are different animals all together.

[paintballwannab]

Originally Posted by griz

As an electrician, I have buried a LOT of PVC pipe over the years. I have also dug up a LOT of PVC conduit/pipe over the years. Almost NONE of it was dry. Seems that no matter how careful you are to PVC cement all the joints, water will get in whether due to condensation or leaking. Personally, I would not trust any form of PVC tube to keep my valuables safe and dry over long periods underground.

LOL that cracked conduit is a PITA isn't it, I run low volt cabling for CVS all over the country, that stale water is just plain out nasty.

I agree completely with not having all your eggs in one basket. Most of the survival articles/books I've read state have your primary source of ammo/food/etc off site, preferably a good distance from the "cities"

I don't know about burying, that may hurt you in the long run if you need to get to it in a hurry, or if the ground is frozen digging 4-5ft by hand could be a bit pain full.

I have two weeks of food and three weeks of water stored, along with 15,000 rounds and half of my guns. All stored about 45min from my house, in the middle of 200 acres of my grandparents property. Three story "shack"


That was while building it, it is complete now with vinyl windows around the top, corrugated metal siding, semi truck trailer doors as the roof. Deadbolted steel security door. Three stories also.

[Hank Ellis]

Unless you have a secret hidden bunker deep in the woods where you can hole up till the event, whatever it is, is over, going overboard is just that. Going overboard.

From my experience you need things in this order. Water. Food, Shelter. Clothing. Gasoline. Communications. Firearms.

You need enough for two weeks without any outside help. If the event lasts longer than two weeks then your chance of survival is going to be very low. Can you farm? Do you have a reliable source of water without electricity or gummit help? No? Then you're dead in a month. That's why during the Cold War we really feared the nukes. Not from the initial blast and radiation but from the after effects of losing the basics of survival.

Let it go.

[griz]

Originally Posted by pleasantguywhopacksAXD

Grey pvc conduit is relatively brittle. Hardly any crush resistance, Sch 40 is. Most people simply do not know how to properly clean and glue PVC, it should till be wet from cleaner when glue is applied.

Our company hires a electrician for the electric work on installation of sanitary ejection pumps. I don't think I have ever seen him use cleaner on conduit. Is that common?

As for condensation , your conduit is open at some point (end), nothing is sealed as in pressure pipe. Conduit lays in a trench for days uncovered waiting on a trench inspection sometimes. If it rains or the trench is wet from ground water, it gets past that electrical tape that gets put over the ends before you pull wire.

If pressure PVC was that bad there would be
leaks everywhere in every house and the world wouldn't be using it. It just isn't common for leaks in that application. Some jurisdictions actually require pulling a vacuum or pressure test on sch 40. It will hold if done right.

Conduit and scd 40 are different animals all together.

Grey electrical conduit is typically Sched 40 and sometimes I install Sched 80. Having installed hundreds of miles of the stuff over the past 25yrs, I think I've got the hang of gluing it together properly by now. White PVC for drinking water requires a primer before glue. Grey PVC glue chemically melts the PVC on both mating surfaces then hardens to a solid after the solvents evaporate. The glue causes the bonding action but does not actually hold pieces together.

The water typically enters the conduit as condensation over time. If you construct a container from PVC and maybe charge it with nitrogen? Perhaps you'd be more successful.

[gunzor]

Originally Posted by mongoose33

A friend of mine mentioned a method by which he thought the military used or invented (hazy memory on his part, doesn't matter) to bury ammo. That was using PVC Pipe (6" in diameter or some such) with the end caps cemented into place.

That would create a sealed container to bury or otherwise store ammo in a place where it wouldn't otherwise be found. Imagine storing it in the pit of an outhouse--who'd ever find it there? ).

The question I had for him was, supposed you wanted to get the ammo (or whatever is in it) out? How do you get the ammo out?

It's not a trivial thing to cut open a PVC pipe. A saw will do it, but you can't just break in. The ends of the caps that seal over the ends of the pipe will extend down the length of the pipe a couple inches--if you cut there you risk cutting what's inside, unless you've made sure you didn't fill it all the way.

Anyone know about this method or others similar to it? It strikes me as an interesting way to create small caches of ammo or food or whatever.

If I were to use a section of PVC for underground storage, sealing it would be a no-brainer. To get the ammo out, though, I would prep the pipe by scoring it with a pipe cutter in the middle before filling and sealing it.

The score wouldn't need to be too deep, just enough to "weaken" it so you could break it open across your knee or something with ease. This IS an emergency SHTF issue after all, so would reusing it really be a factor? Add in a desiccant pack and I'd wager it'd last a very long time.

[griz]

eh, piece of cake... just use a wire rope saw. You can find them in the plumbing dept of your local Home Depot for a couple bucks. It would take just a few minutes at the most to cut off an end, even through a 6" size. I use them to cut PVC pipe off even when wire are existing within and with care, you can avoid cutting into the contents. No power needed and silent too.

[Krackels]

A threaded end cap would be easy enough to remove and seal prior to burial like others have mentioned. Even if you don't use a threaded end cap it'd be easy enough to cut through the PVC without damaging the contents if it's packaged well.

I've heard that dry ice can be used to purge the container of any oxygen thus further preventing/reducing chance of corrosion, just something else to consider.

[Mike33810]

I do like the idea of a 6" PVC pipe with a threaded end cap that is lined with silicon caulk. But I would not recommend military ammunition cans as they were not designed to be submerged in wet locations for extended periods.

But you still need to address the possible condensation problem. The use of dry chemicals to remove condensation may no be possible with gunpowder. Be cautious and check before resulting to such a measure. Placing a layer of gravel and crunched paper at the bottom may be some help.

When I was playing in the sand we would get pre-positioned AK-47 buried ammunition at locations that was sealed off in large canes. Much like the big ham in a can the ammunition was loosely stored within the can. That is not much help as you may not have a caning machine.

When I first read your article I asked myself why would anyone bury ammunition? Come to think of it this may not me such a bad idea. In case of a house fire the ammunition would not endanger rescue personnel. The down side would be to find the ammunition years later when you want to use to switch for fresh ammunition.

I hope this may help. I know that I will use this idea myself, not to keep more then 500 rounds in the house for fire safety.

[jpusk]

Originally Posted by MrOneEyedBoh

yeah what is the total reason behind burying ammo? just to have it for paranoid people?

Yes. And the rest of the survivors.

[tphitterlude92]

well the thing with condensation, what about doing a vacuum fitting and suck all of the air out so there wouldnt be any way to condensation? i may be wrong, but it might work?