XD Talk

  • Home
  • Forum
  • Active Topics
  • Gallery
  • Social Groups
  • Search
  • Today's Posts
  • Mark Forums Read
  • Register
  • Advertise

Interesting finding re: case wall thickness for .223

This is a discussion on Interesting finding re: case wall thickness for .223 within the The Ammo Can forums, part of the Armory Talk category; After the discussion in other threads about the cases for .223 military brass being thicker, and thus producing lesser volume in the cases, requiring smaller ...

Breadcrumb Image XDTalk Forums - Your XD/XD(m) Information Source! » Armory Talk » The Ammo Can » Interesting finding re: case wall thickness for .223

Reply
Old 09-24-2008, 01:21 AM   #1
XDTalk 2K Member
 
mongoose33's Avatar
 
Member #: 25494
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,719
Interesting finding re: case wall thickness for .223

After the discussion in other threads about the cases for .223 military brass being thicker, and thus producing lesser volume in the cases, requiring smaller loads, I decided to take some brass apart and see what was what.

I think you'll be surprised at what I found. I was.

Five brass casings: R P 223 Rem, FC 08, Winchester .223 Rem, FC 223 Rem, and LC 04.

Hopefully this will come through well--sometimes tables don't work so well in posts.

First. after depriming and trimming to length, here are the weights, in grains, of the five cases:

RP223Rem: 91.5 gr
FC 08: 92.1
Winchester .223 Rem: 96.3
FC 223 Rem: 91.5
LC 04: 92.3.

The heaviest casing was, oddly, the commercial Winchester brass I just bought last week and fired once.

Second, I cut off the necks, producing a "cartridge" 1.25" long. After removing the burr, I then used a dial caliper to determine casing wall thickness at that length :

RP223Rem: .012"
FC 08: .012-.013"
Winchester ..223 Rem: .012-.013"
FC 223 Rem: .013-.014"
LC 04: .012-.013"

Then, I cut the cartridges down again, leaving them 1/2" long.

I measured the casing wall again at that length, after removing any burrs:

RP223Rem: .027"
FC 08: .025"
Winchester .223 Rem: .030"
FC 223 Rem: .025"
LC 04: .027"


What's the upshot of all this? The conventional wisdom is that military cases are thicker, resulting in a smaller volume within the case which will, for the same amount of powder, produce higher pressures.

But what I see is that the commercial cartridge casing, the Winchester, is the thickest of all, resulting in the smallest volume w/in the casing.!

Can anyone shed some light on this? Obviously, the samples are small, but shockingly different than what we'd expect if the conventional wisdom is true. It sure looks to me like there isn't all that much difference between the cartirdges. (And yes, I did one of each kind, not a large sample).
__________________
.


Occam's Razor: If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

Last edited by mongoose33; 09-24-2008 at 07:09 AM. Reason: Tune up, fix spelling error.
mongoose33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Remove Ads
Old 09-24-2008, 06:15 AM   #2
XDTalk 500 Member
 
Edubya's Avatar
 
Member #: 23037
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 746
Interesting. Next, use water volume to check which has the most volume. Simply fill each trimmed case with water and then weigh the amount of water. Liquid is used because it fills all voids.
__________________
EW

I ain't the expert, but I've made a lot of the wrong decisions!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 post(s).

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 post(s).


If Homicide Is Outlawed, Only Outlaws Will Commit Homicide
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 post(s).
Edubya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2008, 07:12 AM   #3
XDTalk 2K Member
 
mongoose33's Avatar
 
Member #: 25494
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edubya View Post
Interesting. Next, use water volume to check which has the most volume. Simply fill each trimmed case with water and then weigh the amount of water. Liquid is used because it fills all voids.
I'll have to figure out something to use to stop up the flash hole. I'm slightly skeptical of using water; I'd need to ensure there are no bubbles left behind that displace the water.

Something with a lesser surface tension, I'd think--maybe alcohol?
__________________
.


Occam's Razor: If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.
mongoose33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2008, 07:42 AM   #4
Official Site Vendor

 
T.J.'s Avatar
 
Member #: 15967
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Edmond, Ok
Posts: 1,498
dont deprime it that will fill in the flash hole or fill the primer pocket with the end of an eraser cut to fit tightly. you might also be able to use elmers glue but you risk it expanding in the primer pocket and takeing up some of the case volume, yet another option yet probably a PITA is cut small pieces of tape and push it againt the primer pocket.


also for the most accurate testing you really need to use brand new brass for all or atleast brass that you know have been fired the same amount brass is pretty soft and tend to elongate which result in the case walls getting thinner as it stretches,

given that the thickest was unfired brass it would stand to reason that since it had not been stretched out that the walls would be thicker.
__________________
Quote:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man"
~Thomas Jefferson~

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 post(s).


Email
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 post(s).

Cell 405-659-0367

Last edited by T.J.; 09-24-2008 at 07:53 AM.
T.J. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2008, 01:14 PM   #5
XDTalk 2K Member
 
mongoose33's Avatar
 
Member #: 25494
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,719
Quote:
Originally Posted by T.J. View Post
dont deprime it that will fill in the flash hole or fill the primer pocket with the end of an eraser cut to fit tightly. you might also be able to use elmers glue but you risk it expanding in the primer pocket and takeing up some of the case volume, yet another option yet probably a PITA is cut small pieces of tape and push it againt the primer pocket.
I'll have to deprime them. I want them all cut to the same length.
Quote:
Originally Posted by T.J. View Post
also for the most accurate testing you really need to use brand new brass for all or atleast brass that you know have been fired the same amount brass is pretty soft and tend to elongate which result in the case walls getting thinner as it stretches,
All of it is once-fired, so far as I know. Collected either from what I shot handloads from new Win brass, or collected from a police range where I don't believe anyone is shooting reloads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T.J. View Post

given that the thickest was unfired brass it would stand to reason that since it had not been stretched out that the walls would be thicker.
It was once-fired. I know, because I fired it.
__________________
.


Occam's Razor: If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.
mongoose33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2008, 01:36 PM   #6
XDTalk 15K Member
 
agalindo's Avatar
 
Member #: 3721
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Alpine Texas
Posts: 16,131
Case weight will vary by lot number even withing the same manufacturer so a WW case of a different lot will weigh a bit different that what you have now.
__________________
Quote:
My name is Mike Franks. I figure I got one more fight left inside me. You want it?
Mike Franks NCIS
Quote:
Battlestar Galactica Book Of Pythia
"All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again."
Quote:
People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome. River Tam Serenity
agalindo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2008, 05:25 PM   #7
Official Site Vendor

 
T.J.'s Avatar
 
Member #: 15967
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Edmond, Ok
Posts: 1,498
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongoose33 View Post
I'll have to deprime them. I want them all cut to the same length.
thats easy enough just put the dead primer back in after each cut. but if you are just going measure capacity using liquid why cut them just use your chamfer tool until they are the exact same length.
__________________
Quote:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man"
~Thomas Jefferson~

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 post(s).


Email
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 post(s).

Cell 405-659-0367
T.J. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2008, 01:36 PM   #8
XDTalk 100 Member
 
Member #: 15364
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: mid-Mo
Posts: 179
Mongoose
I have found the exact same thing when weighing brass. Using once fired brass not trimed gave me the same results as your research. I didnt think it was worth the trouble to fill with water and weigh, just loaded and shot.
Hillbilly Jim
Hillbilly Jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   XDTalk Forums - Your XD/XD(m) Information Source! » Armory Talk » The Ammo Can


Search tags for this page
.223 brass wall thickness
,
.223 case thickness
,

.223 case wall thickness

,

.223 neck thickness

,

.223 neck wall thickness

,
.223 remingtion brass cartridge case thickness
,
.223 remington brass neck wall thickness
,
.223 remington case wall thickness
,

223 case neck thickness

,
223 case thickness
,

223 case wall thickness

,

223 neck thickness

,
case sidewall thickness
,

case wall thickness

,
wall thickness neck 223 brass
Click on a term to search for related topics.

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On