Sand Bullets - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

SLCDave · 08-01-2005, 01:11 PM

http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/ne...ntent=w073121A

Israel replacing lethal rubber bullets with new sand bullets for riot control

GAVIN RABINOWITZ

JERUSALEM (AP) - The Israeli military said Sunday it is changing riot control methods, replacing its sometimes lethal rubber-coated steel pellets with compressed sand bullets.

Rubber bullets have killed dozens of Palestinians in the past two decades. The new sand bullets were originally developed for close-quarter hostage rescue situations.

An Israeli human rights groups praised the decision, but said it was surprising that the army had taken so long to find non-lethal means of dispersing Palestinian demonstrators.

The new round, in which the head of the bullet is made from compressed sand and can be fired from a regular rifle, has already been used in the West Bank against Palestinians protesting against the separation barrier Israel is building, the army said.

The sand bullet, said to be extremely painful but less dangerous because it does not penetrate the skin, was developed and first used by Israel's Prisons Authority, the army said. The rubber bullets will be phased out.

Human rights groups praised the move.

"Every time less lethal weapons are used it is a good thing," said Sarit Michaeli, spokeswoman for the Israeli human rights group B'tselem.

For years, the army maintained that the rubber bullets were not lethal. However, the bullets were deadly when fired from too close a range or when they hit soft body areas, such as eyes.

At least 60 Palestinians were killed by rubber bullets between 1987 and 1993, in the first Palestinian uprising, according to B'tselem. Since the eruption of the latest round of fighting in 2000, 15 Palestinians have been killed, Michaeli said, noting that the army frequently used live fire against stone-throwing youths.

"We have been asking the army for many years to develop less lethal weapons for demonstrations and to make it accessible to all soldiers," Michaeli said.

The army also routinely uses tear gas and stun grenades against protesters and recently unveiled a machine called The Scream, a device that emits penetrating bursts of sound that leave targets reeling with dizziness and nausea.

The military has denied that the new weapons were acquired in the face of possible confrontations with thousands of Jewish protesters in next month's Gaza Strip withdrawal.

The new ordinance was developed by a prison service team looking for a non-lethal weapon to be used in prison hostage situations, said Prisons Authority spokesman Ofer Lefler.

"We wanted something that would allow us to get the prisoner out alive," he said.

Lefler said the bullet was developed by the Israeli team working in consultations with armies around the world. He declined to give further details on the development process or the contents of the sand bullet.

Michaeli said her group had no information on the sand bullet or reports of fatalities from it. "We hope that the new bullet will not be deadly," she said.

Arrowman · 08-01-2005, 03:21 PM

wow...cool concept, wonder what they are using as a binding agent? im wondering if they are using a sabot type projectile, or whether they are actually using a rifled bore. almost sounds similar to the plaster based door breaching rounds......so many questions. good post.

retired · 08-05-2005, 07:28 PM

Off subj., but I saw something in a television movie one time using a very special round. I know, it's tv and it probably is more science fiction than anything, but it was a great idea I thought from the identification aspect.

The bullet was made of ice and kept in a special container until loaded into a rifle. After the person was shot, it melted, leaving no evidence and no way to trace it.

Now that I think about it, I believe it was actually a Wesley Snipes or Waylon (forgot his last name, but there a 4 or 5 brothers all in movies or tv) movie that made its way to tv.

It was supposed to be an assination attempt on the President I believe, but got his wife.

I just think an ice bullet would be cool (pun intended).

tavman · 08-05-2005, 11:38 PM

They did an episode of Mythbusters trying ice bullets.

No matter what they did they couldn't get it to work. The ice would melt before it left the end of the gun.

Delija · 08-06-2005, 01:16 AM

The "Scream" ...sounds very cool (no pun intended). I want one of those!

Better editing is needed (maybe I'm the only one that noticed?)

"Ordinance" - decree, regulation, law, edict, order

"Ordnance" - weaponry, armaments, guns, artillery

Peace,
D.

JD McDorce · 08-06-2005, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retired

Now that I think about it, I believe it was actually a Wesley Snipes or Waylon (forgot his last name, but there a 4 or 5 brothers all in movies or tv) movie that made its way to tv.

Keenan Ivory Wayans and the movie was Most Wanted. There was also an episode of CSI that involved a bullet made of hamburger...

SLCDave · 08-08-2005, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tavman

They did an episode of Mythbusters trying ice bullets.

No matter what they did they couldn't get it to work. The ice would melt before it left the end of the gun.

I love the show, and watch it every time I come across it, but many of their tests leave a lot to be desired, if you know what I mean.

I think for an ice bullet to work, it would have to be shot out of a pneumatic gun of some sort.

08-01-2005, 01:11 PM	#1
SLCDave XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 1,983	Sand Bullets http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/ne...ntent=w073121A Israel replacing lethal rubber bullets with new sand bullets for riot control GAVIN RABINOWITZ JERUSALEM (AP) - The Israeli military said Sunday it is changing riot control methods, replacing its sometimes lethal rubber-coated steel pellets with compressed sand bullets. Rubber bullets have killed dozens of Palestinians in the past two decades. The new sand bullets were originally developed for close-quarter hostage rescue situations. An Israeli human rights groups praised the decision, but said it was surprising that the army had taken so long to find non-lethal means of dispersing Palestinian demonstrators. The new round, in which the head of the bullet is made from compressed sand and can be fired from a regular rifle, has already been used in the West Bank against Palestinians protesting against the separation barrier Israel is building, the army said. The sand bullet, said to be extremely painful but less dangerous because it does not penetrate the skin, was developed and first used by Israel's Prisons Authority, the army said. The rubber bullets will be phased out. Human rights groups praised the move. "Every time less lethal weapons are used it is a good thing," said Sarit Michaeli, spokeswoman for the Israeli human rights group B'tselem. For years, the army maintained that the rubber bullets were not lethal. However, the bullets were deadly when fired from too close a range or when they hit soft body areas, such as eyes. At least 60 Palestinians were killed by rubber bullets between 1987 and 1993, in the first Palestinian uprising, according to B'tselem. Since the eruption of the latest round of fighting in 2000, 15 Palestinians have been killed, Michaeli said, noting that the army frequently used live fire against stone-throwing youths. "We have been asking the army for many years to develop less lethal weapons for demonstrations and to make it accessible to all soldiers," Michaeli said. The army also routinely uses tear gas and stun grenades against protesters and recently unveiled a machine called The Scream, a device that emits penetrating bursts of sound that leave targets reeling with dizziness and nausea. The military has denied that the new weapons were acquired in the face of possible confrontations with thousands of Jewish protesters in next month's Gaza Strip withdrawal. The new ordinance was developed by a prison service team looking for a non-lethal weapon to be used in prison hostage situations, said Prisons Authority spokesman Ofer Lefler. "We wanted something that would allow us to get the prisoner out alive," he said. Lefler said the bullet was developed by the Israeli team working in consultations with armies around the world. He declined to give further details on the development process or the contents of the sand bullet. Michaeli said her group had no information on the sand bullet or reports of fatalities from it. "We hope that the new bullet will not be deadly," she said. __________________ We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate. Thomas Jefferson Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

08-01-2005, 03:21 PM	#2
Arrowman XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Peoples republik of Komiefornia Posts: 214	wow...cool concept, wonder what they are using as a binding agent? im wondering if they are using a sabot type projectile, or whether they are actually using a rifled bore. almost sounds similar to the plaster based door breaching rounds......so many questions. good post. __________________ ******************************************* XD9- Stainless Benelli Nova 26\" Volquartsen 10/22 Winchester Model 94 Winchester Model 1873 .44-40 Hawk M982 riot gun Arminius HW5 revolver

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

08-05-2005, 07:28 PM	#3
retired XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: S. Calif. Posts: 5,311	Off subj., but I saw something in a television movie one time using a very special round. I know, it's tv and it probably is more science fiction than anything, but it was a great idea I thought from the identification aspect. The bullet was made of ice and kept in a special container until loaded into a rifle. After the person was shot, it melted, leaving no evidence and no way to trace it. Now that I think about it, I believe it was actually a Wesley Snipes or Waylon (forgot his last name, but there a 4 or 5 brothers all in movies or tv) movie that made its way to tv. It was supposed to be an assination attempt on the President I believe, but got his wife. I just think an ice bullet would be cool (pun intended).

08-05-2005, 11:38 PM	#4
tavman XDTalk Newbie Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Arkansas Posts: 6	They did an episode of Mythbusters trying ice bullets. No matter what they did they couldn't get it to work. The ice would melt before it left the end of the gun.

08-06-2005, 01:16 AM	#5
Delija XDTalk 4K Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 4,034	The "Scream" ...sounds very cool (no pun intended). I want one of those! Better editing is needed (maybe I'm the only one that noticed?) "Ordinance" - decree, regulation, law, edict, order "Ordnance" - weaponry, armaments, guns, artillery Peace, D.