Casting vs. Swaging - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

rockerz71 · 05-07-2008, 05:59 AM

I think I am going to start either casting or swaging once I have the money for it. I'm not sure which. It looks like you can produce better ammo, including jacketed ammo, through swaging. The startup costs seem to be higher with swaging but I haven't read enough about it to know exactly what I need and what the difference in cost will be.

Any thoughts?

fredj338 · 05-07-2008, 12:08 PM

The cost to start swaging jacketed bullets is much larger than casting. You'll need a heavy duty single stage press & forming dies. Then you have to buy jackets & cast lead cores or buy lead wire. If you are looking for economical shooting, then casting your own bullets is pretty cheap. A Lee 20# bottom pour pot, Lee 6cav mold & a Lyman. Redding or ECBS lube/sizer is all you need. You can use scrap lead from wheel wts., plumbing, roofing, etc.

rockerz71 · 05-07-2008, 12:26 PM

Thanks, I think I am going to get some casting stuff once I find a decent source of cheap or free lead

**agalindo** · 05-07-2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredj338

The cost to start swaging jacketed bullets is much larger than casting. You'll need a heavy duty single stage press & forming dies. Then you have to buy jackets & cast lead cores or buy lead wire. If you are looking for economical shooting, then casting your own bullets is pretty cheap. A Lee 20# bottom pour pot, Lee 6cav mold & a Lyman. Redding or ECBS lube/sizer is all you need. You can use scrap lead from wheel wts., plumbing, roofing, etc.

I looked into swaging and it was just too expensive. The dies alone were

.

I've starting casing bullets and find it's a fun hobby. I bought on of the Lee 20# bottom pour pots and the lee mocro band molds in .40 and 9mm.

[edit]I use wheel weights.[/edit]

fredj338 · 05-07-2008, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockerz71

Thanks, I think I am going to get some casting stuff once I find a decent source of cheap or free lead

Yep, it's getting harder & harder to scrounge free or cheap metal for alloy. You can buy lead & alloys on line but IMO, if you have to pay much more than $1/#, you aren't going to save much. Figure 35, 200gr bullets/# = 34#/1000 i+ lube & elec. (elec. pots use quite abit) + 3-6hrs total time. If you can buy them for $60/1000, I would probably not cast them.

John4538 · 05-08-2008, 06:40 PM

RockerZ- suggest you find out how much you will have to pay for the cast bullets first. If you can get them locally at a good price then maybe casting may not be worthwhile for you. If you have to order them and pay shipping I doubt you will come anywhere close to a good price.

Next check around to see where you can get lead. Wheel weights or range lead are the typical sources. I read on some recent site, maybe here, don't know, that some are paying anywhere from $25 to $30 for a full 5 gallon bucket of wheel weights. I think they said they got something like 80 pounds of lead ingots out of a pail with about 25 or so scrap.

Compare the two costs for cost per 1000. It does take time to melt down the weights. Next you have to have a pot and a mold along with something to size them with. Lubing can be done with liquid alox by simply rolling them in it. I use a Star sizer that also lubes at the same time. Fast Fast fast. I find the cost for electric and lube is really almost insignificant anyway.

You can get some decent buys on Ebay for your equipment-pot, dies and sizer. Be carefull, know exactly what these items cost new by looking them up at Midway so you don't over pay.

Get the Lyman Cast Bullet handbook as a starter and read how to do it. It's not that hard and that book will tell you all the pitfalls and problems you will have. It does take time but it is a lot of fun to be alone for awhile.

go to castboolits.gunloads.com for some really good information. It's fully dedicated to casting bullets.

I think you can save a lot if you shoot a lot. you don't need to spend a lot of money to start off either. Lyman makes decent molds, Lee has aluminum ones that are very cheap. I prefer Seaco or H&G molds but they start to get pricey-especially the H&G. H&G are considered to be the best ever made but I find Seaco's are excellent too. Usually a lot of them on Ebay. If you are casting for pistol, which i guess you are, then do not go with anything less than four cavities, 6 is better and 10 are great.

Before you buy any molds make sure you are selecting the right bullet mold, there are many different designs but some are standard for certain calibers. If you tell me what you are wanting to shoot I will try and steer you to the right ones if I know. If not, that web site above will have the answers for you. For the XD you do have to be carefull about design. For instance, in my 40 XD i shoot a truncated cone. round nose should work but SWC won't.

Hope this helps a little.

fredj338 · 05-08-2008, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John4538

Usually a lot of them on Ebay. If you are casting for pistol, which i guess you are, then do not go with anything less than four cavities, 6 is better and 10 are great.
Hope this helps a little.

WHo makes a 10cav mold? It must weigh 10#!

John4538 · 05-09-2008, 07:40 AM

Ha, I have one 10 cavity H&G mold for 38 wadcutters. Bugger weighs a ton. If i knew how much that thing weighed before I bid on it I would have never bid for it and gone with a 4 or 6 cavity. I got caught up in the moment and was one of my first molds so i really didn't appreciate how much these thing weighed. But it does crank out the bullets.

John

rockerz71 · 05-09-2008, 07:48 AM

Thanks for all the replies everyone

Quote:

Originally Posted by John4538

Before you buy any molds make sure you are selecting the right bullet mold, there are many different designs but some are standard for certain calibers. If you tell me what you are wanting to shoot I will try and steer you to the right ones if I know. If not, that web site above will have the answers for you. For the XD you do have to be carefull about design. For instance, in my 40 XD i shoot a truncated cone. round nose should work but SWC won't.

If I am going to buy stuff just for a single caliber I will go with .45acp. In the future I will want to cast 9mm and maybe 30-30, though I think that using non-jacketed lead bullets in a micro groove barrel is supposed to be bad.

John4538 · 05-09-2008, 08:23 AM

If this is for the XD i would stay with a round nose bullet or truncated cone. Maybe someone else can advise on weight for the XD since I don't have the 45 i don't really know what is preferred weight wise. If for the 1911 stay with a SWC in the H&G 68 profile. Many mold makers have that style. I believe Seaco number is 068. This is a 200 grain bullet but again a SWC. you may have to polish the feed ramp for a SWC to work on the 1911 to get reliable feeding. No matter which you use, watch your crimp and keep it to specs. If you have some problems with feeding in the XD play around some with the COAL and crimp.

For rifle keep in mind you need to keep velocity down due to leading. I believe you will have trouble going over about 2200 fps with lead. The lube is really important to get it up to that speed. I am only starting into rifle bullets for my 1903A3 so can't help too much on that.

05-07-2008, 05:59 AM	#1
rockerz71 XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 2,546	Casting vs. Swaging I think I am going to start either casting or swaging once I have the money for it. I'm not sure which. It looks like you can produce better ammo, including jacketed ammo, through swaging. The startup costs seem to be higher with swaging but I haven't read enough about it to know exactly what I need and what the difference in cost will be. Any thoughts?

05-07-2008, 12:08 PM	#2
fredj338 XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,059	The cost to start swaging jacketed bullets is much larger than casting. You'll need a heavy duty single stage press & forming dies. Then you have to buy jackets & cast lead cores or buy lead wire. If you are looking for economical shooting, then casting your own bullets is pretty cheap. A Lee 20# bottom pour pot, Lee 6cav mold & a Lyman. Redding or ECBS lube/sizer is all you need. You can use scrap lead from wheel wts., plumbing, roofing, etc. __________________ EVERY GOOD SHOOTER SHOULD BE A HANDLOADER!

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05-07-2008, 12:26 PM	#3
rockerz71 XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 2,546	Thanks, I think I am going to get some casting stuff once I find a decent source of cheap or free lead

05-08-2008, 06:40 PM	#6
John4538 XDTalk Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 62	RockerZ- suggest you find out how much you will have to pay for the cast bullets first. If you can get them locally at a good price then maybe casting may not be worthwhile for you. If you have to order them and pay shipping I doubt you will come anywhere close to a good price. Next check around to see where you can get lead. Wheel weights or range lead are the typical sources. I read on some recent site, maybe here, don't know, that some are paying anywhere from $25 to $30 for a full 5 gallon bucket of wheel weights. I think they said they got something like 80 pounds of lead ingots out of a pail with about 25 or so scrap. Compare the two costs for cost per 1000. It does take time to melt down the weights. Next you have to have a pot and a mold along with something to size them with. Lubing can be done with liquid alox by simply rolling them in it. I use a Star sizer that also lubes at the same time. Fast Fast fast. I find the cost for electric and lube is really almost insignificant anyway. You can get some decent buys on Ebay for your equipment-pot, dies and sizer. Be carefull, know exactly what these items cost new by looking them up at Midway so you don't over pay. Get the Lyman Cast Bullet handbook as a starter and read how to do it. It's not that hard and that book will tell you all the pitfalls and problems you will have. It does take time but it is a lot of fun to be alone for awhile. go to castboolits.gunloads.com for some really good information. It's fully dedicated to casting bullets. I think you can save a lot if you shoot a lot. you don't need to spend a lot of money to start off either. Lyman makes decent molds, Lee has aluminum ones that are very cheap. I prefer Seaco or H&G molds but they start to get pricey-especially the H&G. H&G are considered to be the best ever made but I find Seaco's are excellent too. Usually a lot of them on Ebay. If you are casting for pistol, which i guess you are, then do not go with anything less than four cavities, 6 is better and 10 are great. Before you buy any molds make sure you are selecting the right bullet mold, there are many different designs but some are standard for certain calibers. If you tell me what you are wanting to shoot I will try and steer you to the right ones if I know. If not, that web site above will have the answers for you. For the XD you do have to be carefull about design. For instance, in my 40 XD i shoot a truncated cone. round nose should work but SWC won't. Hope this helps a little.

05-09-2008, 07:40 AM	#8
John4538 XDTalk Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 62	Ha, I have one 10 cavity H&G mold for 38 wadcutters. Bugger weighs a ton. If i knew how much that thing weighed before I bid on it I would have never bid for it and gone with a 4 or 6 cavity. I got caught up in the moment and was one of my first molds so i really didn't appreciate how much these thing weighed. But it does crank out the bullets. John

05-09-2008, 08:23 AM	#10
John4538 XDTalk Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 62	If this is for the XD i would stay with a round nose bullet or truncated cone. Maybe someone else can advise on weight for the XD since I don't have the 45 i don't really know what is preferred weight wise. If for the 1911 stay with a SWC in the H&G 68 profile. Many mold makers have that style. I believe Seaco number is 068. This is a 200 grain bullet but again a SWC. you may have to polish the feed ramp for a SWC to work on the 1911 to get reliable feeding. No matter which you use, watch your crimp and keep it to specs. If you have some problems with feeding in the XD play around some with the COAL and crimp. For rifle keep in mind you need to keep velocity down due to leading. I believe you will have trouble going over about 2200 fps with lead. The lube is really important to get it up to that speed. I am only starting into rifle bullets for my 1903A3 so can't help too much on that.