Reloading questions...

[Raptor1956]

I'm getting near dropping the hamer on a Dillion RL 550B and other goodies to reload my 223 and 357 sig but there are a couple things I'm not sure about. When I look at the steps involved when using the 550B it goes something like this:

1. Clean brass

2. Inspect brass, toss if cracked etc

3. Place in first stage of press to decap, reshape and add new primer

4. Bell mouth and add powder

5. Seat bullet

6. Crimp case/bullet

7. Eject/done


OK, that appears to be all there is, but what if I have to trim the case, where in the sequence is that done? You could trim after cleaning but wouldn't it be better to trim after reshaping? If you trim before reshaping isn't it possible that reshaping could shorten the case below minimum length? Trimmiing after shaping would seem to reduce the need from trimming and reduce the amount trimmed when it is.

Also, if you fireform your brass or choice not to reshape the whole case, just the neck, where in that sequence do you check the length and trim or toss as needed?


Thanks,

Brian

[Rampant Colt]

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Check some of the very informative instructional videos in the link above. Actually watching it done will clear up many of your questions

[Raptor1956]

I've watched many of those videos already and they are pretty good, but they don't really go beyond what I detailed as the reload sequence. That is, they don't cover where in the reload sequence you're suppossed to check the length and trim or toss if needed. If trimming is best done AFTER reshaping and rehaping is done on the first stage of the press then you'd have to remove the case to measure for length. That's not how the press is setup. After reshaping you index then the second stage bells the mouth and throws the powder. What seems to be missing is a trim step BETWEEN the reshaping and the powder drop.


Brian

[highscore]

Sounds like you have a good idea of the Dillon reloading process. Make sure that if you buy the Dillon, install a light that will shine into the charged case so you can visually inspect each and every one of the cases before you seat a bullet. It's amazing the amount of ways you can screw up if you do not pay 100% attention when you are reloading on a progressive press. I'm not trying to dissuade you, I've had mine for over 15 years and have loaded countless rounds and would buy another!

The one thing I think you need to know is that all primer pockets are not created equal. Some are crimped and unless they are chamfered, you will have more grief than you need. Found brass is great, especially when it is obviously once fired, but you do have to be carefull. I use a Dillon swager and like it very much also.

Trimming... Unfortunately, this is a necessary evil of reloading bottleneck cases. All the trimmers I have used require that you reshape(size) the case first. This will ensure that the ID of the neck will properly fit the pilot of the trimmer . The OAL(overall length) of the case will change after sizing! After trimming, the ID and OD of the top of the neck need to be chamfered also, the ID so the bullet will enter the case without scaring, and the OD for feeding without problems into your gun.

Neck sizing only on bottleneck cases that are going to be used in a semi auto weapon in a NO NO. Aside from feeding problems that can and do show up, the slide or bolt needs to have enough room to completely close which means that the shoulder must be set back slightly. Fired cases in a AR-15 do not necessarily come out of the weapon all the same length. In a bolt rifle, many people do neck size only or use a full length sizing die and size without pushing the shoulder back, which is my perferred method.

I can't say how many times I've reloaded some my .223 brass. A few necks split but most get either lost on the range, left there by my son (another story for another day), or the primer pockets loosen up.

Buy the Dillon!

[Raptor1956]

Thanks HS, good info.

So it looks like there is a problem with the way most presses operate in as much as the trimming step is not part of the press sequence.
It look like I'll need to reshape then remove from the press for trimming then put back into the press. Not good. What would be nice is a 5 stage press with a trim stage between shaping and powder drop.

If you have to shape then remove for trimming then put back into the press what stage do you put it back into? If the second then you won't reshape again, but if you put it back in at the start then you'll be reshaping twice.

How often do you have to mess with the primer pocket? If that's a step that needs to be done with some frequency then where and when is that done? Using the press you decap on the first stage but you also reshape and press in a new primer. I guess you could do a double pass with all the brass going through just the first stage without new primers to remove the old primer and reshape the case. Then remove from the press, check/chamfer/swage the primer pocket, check/trim the case length, then reinsert into the press at stage one and this time install the new primer then index to bell/powder drop etc.

I wonder how much of an issue the primer pocket is though. I was under the impression that this was mostly a problem with military brass.

As it turns out both firearms I plan to reload for use necked cartridges including the 357 sig pistol. If this means I'll have to do the double take with the press for all my reloading work that is going to increase the workload several fold. Looks like you'd be hard pressed to actually crank out more than 100 rounds per hour when all is said and done.

Oh yeah, almost forgot, I think what I'd do to limit the chance of overcharging with powder is two things: first, look at the case as I'm setting the bullet, and then weigh the cartridge when complete. If you know the range of weights of the empty cases with new primer and the weight of the bullet then the powder weight would be equal to "final cartridge weight - (case with primer + bullet)" The extra powder should be easily seen when the intended charge is more than about 5gr I would think.


Brian

[SteveW1958]

My process for 223 using a 550 is as follows. There are no easy shortcuts for rifle rounds.
1. Tumble brass to clean
2. Lube cases
3. Run through 1st stage of 550 to decap & resize
4. Trim case length
5. Chamfer case mouth (inside & out) & primer pocket (if needed)
6. Tumble cases to remove lube
7. Insert case back into stage 1 of 550 to prime case (do not resize again as there is no lube at this point see #6)
8. Proceed through stages 2-4 to complete the round
9. Shoot em
10. Back to #1

I do this in batches of around 500. Completing steps 1-3 then 4-6 and finally 8. Doing each round separately will take forever.

[Raptor1956]

Originally Posted by SteveW1958

My process for 223 using a 550 is as follows. There are no easy shortcuts for rifle rounds.
1. Tumble brass to clean
2. Lube cases
3. Run through 1st stage of 550 to decap & resize
4. Trim case length
5. Chamfer case mouth (inside & out) & primer pocket (if needed)
6. Tumble cases to remove lube
7. Insert case back into stage 1 of 550 to prime case (do not resize again as there is no lube at this point see #6)
8. Proceed through stages 2-4 to complete the round
9. Shoot em
10. Back to #1

I do this in batches of around 500. Completing steps 1-3 then 4-6 and finally 8. Doing each round separately will take forever.

Steve, that looks pretty much the way I expected it to be and addiing the cleaning to remove lube after resizing is a good idea.

But, I do wonder how critical it is to chamfer the primer pocket. Again, I thought that only the military brass needed this -- is that so. Is there any brass that is unlikely to need primer pocket chamferring/swaging?

Lastly, how long in total does it take you to complete 500 rounds? If you subtract the cleaning stages that can be done with little human assistance beyond loading and unloading and count only the time you have to be involved how long for 500?


Thanks,

Brian

[SteveW1958]

Brian,
It is only necessary to chamfer crimped (military) primer pockets and only the first time they are reloaded. After looking at a handful of both you will easily know which have to be done. You do not want to over chamfer pockets as the primer will be loose and may fall out. Also if you do not chamfer a pocket that was crimped you will most likely not be able to completely seat the new primer or you will crush it in the process.
Time wise I have to guess as I normally don't complete the entire process in one day. I would say for 500 rounds a total of about 4 hours. Four times as long as it takes me to load any pistol cal (I have a case feeder on my 550).

[aslink]

Originally Posted by SteveW1958

My process for 223 using a 550 is as follows. There are no easy shortcuts for rifle rounds.
1. Tumble brass to clean
2. Lube cases
3. Run through 1st stage of 550 to decap & resize
4. Trim case length
5. Chamfer case mouth (inside & out) & primer pocket (if needed)
6. Tumble cases to remove lube
7. Insert case back into stage 1 of 550 to prime case (do not resize again as there is no lube at this point see #6)
8. Proceed through stages 2-4 to complete the round
9. Shoot em
10. Back to #1

I've been thinking about getting into a Dillon as well and this has been on my mind for sometime. This is what I've come up with because I'm tired of trimming 223 brass already.

1. Tumble brass to clean
2. Lube cases
3. Run through single stage press with the Dillon RT1200 trimmer with resize die
4. Tumble cases to remove lube
5. Insert case into stage 1 of 550 to deprime and prime case (with a universal decap die again as there is no lube at this point see #4)
6. In the case that you need to swage run the brass through without any powder
7. Swage through the Dillon Super Swage 600
8. Proceed through all stages with powder and bullets to complete the round

Does that make sense?

It seems a bit pricier but faster and easier. Because I purchased 2,000 rounds of once fired and had to swage and trim about half of it I'm looking for time savers already. Doing all processes with a single stage and by hand is really time consuming.

I'm not trying to hi jack the thread but it seemed like a good place to ask.

[Raptor1956]

Steve, again, I really appreciate your feedback.


I will be reloading for my 223 (Bushmaster Varminter with 24" fluted heavy barrel and floating handguard, flat top with removable carry handle and flip up front sight, Leupold 6x24 mil dot scope). I'm thinking about buying a lot of new brass (500) to start and if there is a brand that does not require crimped primer pockets that would be my preference. Over time I may pickup or buy other brass for the 223.

The other gun I'll be reloading for is a pistol, but since it's a 357 sig with bottleneck brass I guess it's going to be about as much work as the 223 except that there shouldn't be as much problem with the primer pocket.

What calibers of handguns do you reload?


Brian