Reloading questions...

[SteveW1958]

Brian,
New commercial unprimed brass will not have primer crimps. The primer crimp is done after the primer is seated. This was done so that there is no chance that the primer could fall out or allow moisture in, this is also why most if not all crimped primers have sealant around them (red or green semi clear paint looking substance).

357SIG will not need to be trimmed. I have reloaded the same cases many times and never have had the need to trim any. Get the Dillon carbide dies and you will not even need to lube. Be very careful when belling the mouth. Just open it up a hair about 1 thousandth. Crimp the mouth moderate and check for setback by pressing the bullet nose on a bathroom scale it should not set back with about 25 - 35 pounds of pressure. 357SIG can be finicky to load if your not careful.

I load for .223 REM, 9MM, 40S&W, .357SIG, and 45ACP
I have seperate toolheads with powder measures set up for each.

On another related post of yours, take a look at Montana Gold for bullets. If you buy then by th ecase thes cost is OK. It's top notch bullet.


aslink,
A better bet, my buddy does this with his 550 is to use a second tool head with a decap die in station 1 and the RT1200 in position 2. Primer pockets are then chamfered if necessary. He then puts in the primary toolhead (or goes to his 2nd 550) to complete the loading process with no die in position 1.

[fredj338]

You have a pretty good idea of the steps involved. Another way to go w/ the 223 to eliminate trimming & still use the progressive is to use the RCBS X-Die. It supposedly full length sizes & takes care of the brass lengthening. You do need to trim initially but then never again. RCBS - Precisioneered Shooting Products - Home This allows full use of your progressive w/o an add'l. step. As far as cleaning primer pockets, I never do on handgun rounds & clean them about every 3 on rifle brass.

[highscore]

Like others said, the primer pocket has to chamfered only once. Many blasters at the range seem to use crimped brass, PMC, WCC, Black Hills, Etc. They buy in bulk and leave it where it falls. Slobs yes, but free brass for the rest of us! As much as I have had much success with Winchester brass in .308, I found that the primer pockets get loose very quickly in .223. Loading somewhat hot loads for shooting at 600 to 1000 yards does not help but I won't use it again. Gave away what I had!

When I do initial case prep, I tend to do large batches at the same time. Here's typically what I do. Understand that these cases would be used for state and national level matches and some of the steps are not necessary for plinking at the local 100 yard range.

- Tumble brass for cleaning
-resize/ deprime in a single stage press using a Bonanza die
-trim using dillon 1200b case trimmer
-swage primer pockets if necessary
-chamfer id and od of necks
-clean out primer pockets
-chamfer flash hole id

Cases are now ready to be run through the Dillon or for single stage press loading. All my 200 yard ammo gets loaded on the Dillon, some 300 (non big match ammo) , and none of my 600 and 1000 yard ammo. I've spent huge amounts of time loading single stage for my son to shoot at the Nationals. 1000 rounds loaded single stage to the above specs is a lot of work but sometimes, it is worth the effort!

[Raptor1956]

Really great input guys...


HS, when loading for matches do you hand measure the powder? I'd think that for 600 yard and longer you'd want to be better than 0.1gr accurate.

Again, when loading for matches do you weigh the bullets and compensate powder loading to achive equal MV?


Brian

[highscore]

Originally Posted by Raptor1956

Really great input guys...


HS, when loading for matches do you hand measure the powder? I'd think that for 600 yard and longer you'd want to be better than 0.1gr accurate.

Again, when loading for matches do you weigh the bullets and compensate powder loading to achive equal MV?


Brian

HI Brian, for 600 yards and beyond I most always weigh the powder (Varget) by beam scale. The only exception to this is my experimenting with Accurate 2460, a ball powder which meters quite well though my Harrell's powder measure. I trust the Accurate load well enough for me but always used Varget (individually weighed) for my son, whose eyes and scores are better than mine. Many people will tell you not to use the ball powder because it is affected by temperature. I never noticed a problem but once at a local league match, my son had two hang fires. This was in New England winter and I don't think the primer pockets were clean. Now, when I load for cold weather, I use magnum primers and haven't noticed any problems.

I do not think that .1 grain is achieveable with Varget and a powder measure. Varget is the gold standard of rifle powder but doesn't meter very well. For 200 and 300 it is accurate enough, but the Dillon varies 3 to 4 tenths of a grain in metering it. My RCBS is no better and the Harrells isn't either. Extruded powder needs to be measured on a scale for longer ranges.

Any more questions, don't hesitate to ask.

[Raptor1956]

I can imagine how many extruded powders would be harder to measure within 0.1gr given the size of each particle. I take it that the reason to extrude in the first place is to reduce the surface area to mass ratio to make it burn more slowly and that would make it particularly useful in a long barreled gun.

Do you have any sense as to the variability in weight of bullets? That is, if a particular 223 bullet is listed as 69gr what would be the spread in weight of a batch of 100 of them. Would bullets made for match use tend to have a tighter spread?

If, for example, a batch of 69gr bullets averaged exactly 69.0gr but with, say, 28% at 69.0, 18% at 69.1gr, 10% at 69.2gr, 6% at 69.3gr and 2% at 69.4gr with an equal distribution below 69.0, I would think that you could sort them by weight and then when you measure out the powder you could use the heavier bullets when the powder measure is above spec and vis verse.


Brian

[highscore]

Like everything else, bullet weight will vary. I always sort bullets by weight for over 600 yards and have done so for 600 yard 223's that will be used for really big matches.

I have found that weighing a box of bullets will yield most of the bullets within +- 3 tenths of a grain , 5% out to +- 5 tenths of a grain, and a very small percentage (probably 1 percent) which I would not consider usuable in a match environment.

After weighing my bullets into lots by weight, I load each weight for use in a match for a given string, such as 24 rounds for across the course highpower matches. I always load a couple of extras for the AR since you can damage them while closing the bolt! Kind of sucks when you have to shoot a 77 grain bullet instead of an 80 because you damaged one of them. They will hit the target but I have found that it usually costs you a couple of points at 600 yards. I have been using Sierra's.

Don't make this harder than it has to be. Good ammo does not mean that you have to take the process to the Nth degree. Until you can hold the x-ring, shoot them there, and call the one's that do not go there, don't waste lots of time doing things that may or may not shave a small percent off your possible group size. Work up a good load, and shoot lots of them. I get great amounts of satisfaction in extracting the best accuracy I can from my firearms but at the end of the day, it's the score that counts.

[Raptor1956]

One more question...

I'm thinking of using Accurate Arms #9 in the 357 sig and it looks like the higher loads compress the powder some. My reason for looking at #9 is that it will fill the case more completely so there should be less velocity variation due to powder movement in the case. There appears to be a situation in which the shift in powder away from the primer tends to cause lower velocity and vis verse.

So, what's the deal on compressing the powder? How much is OK? Any other feedback on this?


Brian

[SteveW1958]

In 357 SIG a compressed load will help keep the bullet from being setback as easily. Personally I am not fond of compressed loads. I use 10.0 gn of AA#7 and get a accurate load running at 1220 FPS with a 124 gn FP jacketed bullet.
The volume of a 357SIG case is small enough that I would not expect to see any issues with powder not filling the case enough.

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by Raptor1956

One more question...

I'm thinking of using Accurate Arms #9 in the 357 sig and it looks like the higher loads compress the powder some. My reason for looking at #9 is that it will fill the case more completely so there should be less velocity variation due to powder movement in the case. There appears to be a situation in which the shift in powder away from the primer tends to cause lower velocity and vis verse.

So, what's the deal on compressing the powder? How much is OK? Any other feedback on this?


Brian

Brian, some compressing of slower powders is perfectly safe. Most of my loads in 9mm, using Unique, Universal, BlueDot, etc. are compressed. Everyone raves about AA#9 in the 357sig, but I have had good lluck w/ AA#7, BlueDot & Longshot under 124gr bullets.