So, the bottom line is..... - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

dave_in_delaware · 07-06-2005, 09:03 PM

Hello all. ((This could get long, so bear with me...))

This is my 2nd post. I've never really owned a gun before (including my inherited 12 ga shotgun, still at my grandmother's house), nor had I ever shot one until Father's Day weekend this year. I had always wanted a handgun of my own though, and waited patiently until the time was right (long story). My girlfriend took me shooting at a semi-local range where you could rent different guns and try them out. I knew I wanted a 9mm, and something sort of smaller because I had been considering the CCW permit. I tried a Glock and the XD-9. Someone at the range let me use his Beretta for a few rounds as well. I had done research online and read so many wonderful things about the XDs. And of course the Glocks have this reputation of indestructability. Anyway, after shooting about 50 rounds through each, my choice was extremely easy. I am a new owner of an XD-9 sub-compact. My girlfriend bought it for me for a Father's Day present. The XD felt so much better in my hands. It was lighter, and handled better, too. The Glock felt sort of top-heavy and bulky. I shot better, faster, and even more confident w/ the XD. But I must say, that I got all my shots at least ON the paper target. Not too bad for my first-time ever shooting.

Of course, I had some questions about the groupings I got, but that's a different thread somewhere around here....

Anyway, the REAL reason for this post is to clarify my thoughts on choosing ammunition (both target/range and SD) for my new gun. I've read maybe 75% of the posts in the Ammo Can last night and have come to my own conclusion, which I am putting before you all, as my teachers and experts, so you can either tell me I'm on the right track, totally wrong, clueless, etc., and also for any other newbies out there who have the same questions I do at this time about ammo.

From what I've read, there is NO tried and true, perfect brand/grain/type of ammo across the board for everyone. For most of the posts I've read, it seems there will always be a certain percentage of you who have used a particular brand/grain/type of ammo without ANY problems after like 1000+ rounds, and the other percentage of you who have used the same brand/grain/type with a few (or a lot) FTF/FTE issues and then chose not to use that brand again. So, I figured I'd have to try a few different brands/grains/types of ammo until I found something that worked consistently in my gun.

After concluding that, I decided to call Springfield's Customer Service to see what they said. I ended up calling three times. The first two times I heard each person flipping through their copy of the "Phoneside Book of Answers" only to come up w/ a (seemingly to me) "textbook" answer, which left me wanting. I got smart on the third call (finally) and asked to speak with someone who actually works there AND owns an XD. THAT person told me that Springfield does NOT recommend Wolf or Sellier+Bellot at all for any XD. Also, they do not recommend steel (casings I guess?) or loose/bulk rounds, and only new, commercially produced ammo (no reloads). They also say 124 grain seems to do the best in their tests, as does 147 grain, although they gave me a grain range of anything from 110 to 230. Also, which I wasn't aware of until I was told, all their guns are hand-made, so each has its own unique tolerance level of all the different ammo out there. I pictured these guns being "punched out" by machines for some reason (duh). Now it makes sense why some people have problems w/ certain ammo while others do not: EVERY gun is different.

So, I conclude that the bottom line is this: Everyone must try a variety of brands/grains/types of ammo in their own guns, to see what their gun likes best, because every gun is unique, as is everyone's way of handling and operating said gun is unique.

Gee, and I've been reading these posts to get THE definitive answer. Silly me. Sorry this got a bit long and wordy. I hope I didn't put you all to sleep. You don't need to respond with any lengthy reply. Just a "yes" or "no" to my concluded bottom line will do. Thanks for listening to this newbie go on and on....

XD BACKUP GUN · 07-06-2005, 09:09 PM

Funny SA use Sellier&Bellot to test fire the guns before the leave the factory.......My test casing that came with my gun is Sellier&Bellot.......
You cannot go wrong with Winchester White Box 115 grain 9mm from Walmart.....my XD 9SC eats Wolf with no problems!
You are right....you gotta see what your Gun likes!
Welcome to the Forum!

**Old School** · 07-06-2005, 09:26 PM

Being this is your first handgun, I'd suggest getting the least expensive ammo you can find, that your range will allow you to shoot. Wolff Ammo is dirty, but I have never had trouble with it. Both of my XDs choked on S&B ammo, didn't like it a bit. The Winchester White Box (100 pack) at Wally World is your best bet. It is cheap, good stuff, and readily available. It is snappy, but most production ammo is.

My guess is, if you try WWB ammo, you will stick with it. It is probably the most sold 9mm ammo on the market, because of its price point (I have no facts to back up this statement).

Have fun, be safe!

Old School

JD McDorce · 07-07-2005, 05:40 AM

-deleted-

JHA XD40 · 07-07-2005, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Also, they do not recommend steel (casings I guess?) or loose/bulk rounds, and only new, commercially produced ammo (no reloads).

I'm also relatively new to shooting and this looks like about as good of place as any to ask a couple questions I've been wondering about.

Why does SA recommend against loose/bulk rounds? I've been considering ordering some Speer Gold Dots from ammoman.com and they would be packaged loose, so I guess I'd like to know a little about that before I order.

Also, in the manual that came with my gun says that my warranty will be void if I use reloaded ammunition. How can they know if I have been using reloaded ammo and has this created problems for anyone trying to get service from SA? I don't have the resources to buy equipment for reloading yet, but I can see how it would be economically feasible in the long term to reload, but I would like to know if it is going to have any adverse affects on my service from SA first.

Thanks for your help.

bd · 07-07-2005, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave_in_delaware

Hello all. ((This could get long, so bear with me...))

This is my 2nd post. I've never really owned a gun before (including my inherited 12 ga shotgun, still at my grandmother's house), nor had I ever shot one until Father's Day weekend this year. I had always wanted a handgun of my own though, and waited patiently until the time was right (long story). My girlfriend took me shooting at a semi-local range where you could rent different guns and try them out. I knew I wanted a 9mm, and something sort of smaller because I had been considering the CCW permit. I tried a Glock and the XD-9. Someone at the range let me use his Beretta for a few rounds as well. I had done research online and read so many wonderful things about the XDs. And of course the Glocks have this reputation of indestructability. Anyway, after shooting about 50 rounds through each, my choice was extremely easy. I am a new owner of an XD-9 sub-compact. My girlfriend bought it for me for a Father's Day present. The XD felt so much better in my hands. It was lighter, and handled better, too. The Glock felt sort of top-heavy and bulky. I shot better, faster, and even more confident w/ the XD. But I must say, that I got all my shots at least ON the paper target. Not too bad for my first-time ever shooting.

Of course, I had some questions about the groupings I got, but that's a different thread somewhere around here....

Anyway, the REAL reason for this post is to clarify my thoughts on choosing ammunition (both target/range and SD) for my new gun. I've read maybe 75% of the posts in the Ammo Can last night and have come to my own conclusion, which I am putting before you all, as my teachers and experts, so you can either tell me I'm on the right track, totally wrong, clueless, etc., and also for any other newbies out there who have the same questions I do at this time about ammo.

From what I've read, there is NO tried and true, perfect brand/grain/type of ammo across the board for everyone. For most of the posts I've read, it seems there will always be a certain percentage of you who have used a particular brand/grain/type of ammo without ANY problems after like 1000+ rounds, and the other percentage of you who have used the same brand/grain/type with a few (or a lot) FTF/FTE issues and then chose not to use that brand again. So, I figured I'd have to try a few different brands/grains/types of ammo until I found something that worked consistently in my gun.

After concluding that, I decided to call Springfield's Customer Service to see what they said. I ended up calling three times. The first two times I heard each person flipping through their copy of the "Phoneside Book of Answers" only to come up w/ a (seemingly to me) "textbook" answer, which left me wanting. I got smart on the third call (finally) and asked to speak with someone who actually works there AND owns an XD. THAT person told me that Springfield does NOT recommend Wolf or Sellier+Bellot at all for any XD. Also, they do not recommend steel (casings I guess?) or loose/bulk rounds, and only new, commercially produced ammo (no reloads). They also say 124 grain seems to do the best in their tests, as does 147 grain, although they gave me a grain range of anything from 110 to 230. Also, which I wasn't aware of until I was told, all their guns are hand-made, so each has its own unique tolerance level of all the different ammo out there. I pictured these guns being "punched out" by machines for some reason (duh). Now it makes sense why some people have problems w/ certain ammo while others do not: EVERY gun is different.

So, I conclude that the bottom line is this: Everyone must try a variety of brands/grains/types of ammo in their own guns, to see what their gun likes best, because every gun is unique, as is everyone's way of handling and operating said gun is unique.

Gee, and I've been reading these posts to get THE definitive answer. Silly me. Sorry this got a bit long and wordy. I hope I didn't put you all to sleep. You don't need to respond with any lengthy reply. Just a "yes" or "no" to my concluded bottom line will do. Thanks for listening to this newbie go on and on....

Your "bottom line" conclusion is definitly -- YES!

bd

SLCDave · 07-07-2005, 08:29 AM

You seem to "get it" better than most new guys, and better than many guys who have been around guns for quite some time. There is no magic bullet. What works for you, won't necessarily work for me, and vice versa. Find out what works consistantly for you, and practice. There are many factors that are more important than what bullet you use.

They may not "recommend" S&B or Wolf, but they won't void your warranty over them. They may, however, refuse warranty work over using reloads.

dave_in_delaware · 07-07-2005, 09:12 AM

Just wanted to elaborate on my original thread here...

My test casing was also S&B. And since it seemed quite contradictory to me, for Springfield to not recommend S&B ammo yet they use it as a test, I called them on it this morning. Customer Service said that S&B's (and Wolf's) primers are "too hard" (for lack of technical reason - that was all they had on it, short of asking one of the tech gurus there I guess). Also, I was under the impression that since I got 1 test casing w/ my gun, they only shot 1 round through it. I was told they shoot an entire 10 round mag to make sure it works; they're only required to send 1 casing if a certain state's laws require a test casing be included w/ the gun (NY and MD I was told, and probably others). Some of Springfield's testers will use S&B, while others might use Winchester or Remington (and apparently PPU). It just depends on who tested your gun that particular day. And lastly, Customer Service sort of "justified" their use of an unrecommended brand by basically adopting this philosophy: if it works with the "unreliable" brand, then it'll work with the good stuff.

Quite interesting. I learn something new every time I call Springfield's Customer Service department.

Thank you all for your kind words and encouragement. I'm glad I'm "getting it" this early in the game.

For those who are interested: I'm going to Wal-Mart today to pick up my first boxes of ammo for my XD. They said they carry Remington 115 grain, and Winchester 115 and 147 grains. I'm gonna grab some of each and go to the range this weekend (with my girlfriend) to practice. I'll let you know what works, the prices I paid, etc. etc. I'll probably start a new thread for my "data" (in case anyone was interested). Thanks again for everyone's help! I appreciate it! You've all made me feel very welcomed.

kabob983 · 07-07-2005, 09:36 AM

Yeah, if you ever break up with that girl who likes buying you guns just let me know! :P

Congrats on the purchase! I'm sure it will be a great pistol for you. If there are any Academy Sports stores up there you might see if they carry Blazer 9mm ammo which here in Alabama runs $3.86/box of 50. I used it when I fired the HS2000 with no problems at all.

I'm in the market for my first pistol as well and am trying to find what will fit me the best. Guess I need to shoot a bit more first though (I've never fired a Glock).

JD McDorce · 07-07-2005, 10:06 AM

-deleted-

07-06-2005, 09:03 PM	#1
dave_in_delaware XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Wilmington, DE Posts: 6,210	So, the bottom line is..... Hello all. ((This could get long, so bear with me...)) This is my 2nd post. I've never really owned a gun before (including my inherited 12 ga shotgun, still at my grandmother's house), nor had I ever shot one until Father's Day weekend this year. I had always wanted a handgun of my own though, and waited patiently until the time was right (long story). My girlfriend took me shooting at a semi-local range where you could rent different guns and try them out. I knew I wanted a 9mm, and something sort of smaller because I had been considering the CCW permit. I tried a Glock and the XD-9. Someone at the range let me use his Beretta for a few rounds as well. I had done research online and read so many wonderful things about the XDs. And of course the Glocks have this reputation of indestructability. Anyway, after shooting about 50 rounds through each, my choice was extremely easy. I am a new owner of an XD-9 sub-compact. My girlfriend bought it for me for a Father's Day present. The XD felt so much better in my hands. It was lighter, and handled better, too. The Glock felt sort of top-heavy and bulky. I shot better, faster, and even more confident w/ the XD. But I must say, that I got all my shots at least ON the paper target. Not too bad for my first-time ever shooting. Of course, I had some questions about the groupings I got, but that's a different thread somewhere around here.... Anyway, the REAL reason for this post is to clarify my thoughts on choosing ammunition (both target/range and SD) for my new gun. I've read maybe 75% of the posts in the Ammo Can last night and have come to my own conclusion, which I am putting before you all, as my teachers and experts, so you can either tell me I'm on the right track, totally wrong, clueless, etc., and also for any other newbies out there who have the same questions I do at this time about ammo. From what I've read, there is NO tried and true, perfect brand/grain/type of ammo across the board for everyone. For most of the posts I've read, it seems there will always be a certain percentage of you who have used a particular brand/grain/type of ammo without ANY problems after like 1000+ rounds, and the other percentage of you who have used the same brand/grain/type with a few (or a lot) FTF/FTE issues and then chose not to use that brand again. So, I figured I'd have to try a few different brands/grains/types of ammo until I found something that worked consistently in my gun. After concluding that, I decided to call Springfield's Customer Service to see what they said. I ended up calling three times. The first two times I heard each person flipping through their copy of the "Phoneside Book of Answers" only to come up w/ a (seemingly to me) "textbook" answer, which left me wanting. I got smart on the third call (finally) and asked to speak with someone who actually works there AND owns an XD. THAT person told me that Springfield does NOT recommend Wolf or Sellier+Bellot at all for any XD. Also, they do not recommend steel (casings I guess?) or loose/bulk rounds, and only new, commercially produced ammo (no reloads). They also say 124 grain seems to do the best in their tests, as does 147 grain, although they gave me a grain range of anything from 110 to 230. Also, which I wasn't aware of until I was told, all their guns are hand-made, so each has its own unique tolerance level of all the different ammo out there. I pictured these guns being "punched out" by machines for some reason (duh). Now it makes sense why some people have problems w/ certain ammo while others do not: EVERY gun is different. So, I conclude that the bottom line is this: Everyone must try a variety of brands/grains/types of ammo in their own guns, to see what their gun likes best, because every gun is unique, as is everyone's way of handling and operating said gun is unique. Gee, and I've been reading these posts to get THE definitive answer. Silly me. Sorry this got a bit long and wordy. I hope I didn't put you all to sleep. You don't need to respond with any lengthy reply. Just a "yes" or "no" to my concluded bottom line will do. Thanks for listening to this newbie go on and on.... __________________ Dave Daily carry = XD-9 service in a Blackhawk CQC SERPA holster, a Spyderco Native, and a Streamlight Scorpion. "Everything matters... unless it's antimatter." “A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and State, and for hunting and recreational use.” [Delaware Constitution, Article I, § 20 Right to keep and bear arms]

07-06-2005, 09:09 PM	#2
XD BACKUP GUN XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oak Grove,MN Posts: 1,720	Funny SA use Sellier&Bellot to test fire the guns before the leave the factory.......My test casing that came with my gun is Sellier&Bellot....... You cannot go wrong with Winchester White Box 115 grain 9mm from Walmart.....my XD 9SC eats Wolf with no problems! You are right....you gotta see what your Gun likes! Welcome to the Forum! __________________ I carry 2 sometimes 3 guns....why not 4....that would be ostentatious. The person who carries more than 1 gun is not paranoid but prepared.

07-06-2005, 09:26 PM	#3
Old School XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Illinois Posts: 7,776	Being this is your first handgun, I'd suggest getting the least expensive ammo you can find, that your range will allow you to shoot. Wolff Ammo is dirty, but I have never had trouble with it. Both of my XDs choked on S&B ammo, didn't like it a bit. The Winchester White Box (100 pack) at Wally World is your best bet. It is cheap, good stuff, and readily available. It is snappy, but most production ammo is. My guess is, if you try WWB ammo, you will stick with it. It is probably the most sold 9mm ammo on the market, because of its price point (I have no facts to back up this statement). Have fun, be safe! Old School __________________ Visit www.pistolgear.com for all of your XD needs!

07-07-2005, 08:29 AM	#7
SLCDave XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 1,980	You seem to "get it" better than most new guys, and better than many guys who have been around guns for quite some time. There is no magic bullet. What works for you, won't necessarily work for me, and vice versa. Find out what works consistantly for you, and practice. There are many factors that are more important than what bullet you use. They may not "recommend" S&B or Wolf, but they won't void your warranty over them. They may, however, refuse warranty work over using reloads. __________________ We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate. Thomas Jefferson Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

07-07-2005, 09:12 AM	#8
dave_in_delaware XDTalk 5K Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Wilmington, DE Posts: 6,210	Just wanted to elaborate on my original thread here... My test casing was also S&B. And since it seemed quite contradictory to me, for Springfield to not recommend S&B ammo yet they use it as a test, I called them on it this morning. Customer Service said that S&B's (and Wolf's) primers are "too hard" (for lack of technical reason - that was all they had on it, short of asking one of the tech gurus there I guess). Also, I was under the impression that since I got 1 test casing w/ my gun, they only shot 1 round through it. I was told they shoot an entire 10 round mag to make sure it works; they're only required to send 1 casing if a certain state's laws require a test casing be included w/ the gun (NY and MD I was told, and probably others). Some of Springfield's testers will use S&B, while others might use Winchester or Remington (and apparently PPU). It just depends on who tested your gun that particular day. And lastly, Customer Service sort of "justified" their use of an unrecommended brand by basically adopting this philosophy: if it works with the "unreliable" brand, then it'll work with the good stuff. Quite interesting. I learn something new every time I call Springfield's Customer Service department. Thank you all for your kind words and encouragement. I'm glad I'm "getting it" this early in the game. For those who are interested: I'm going to Wal-Mart today to pick up my first boxes of ammo for my XD. They said they carry Remington 115 grain, and Winchester 115 and 147 grains. I'm gonna grab some of each and go to the range this weekend (with my girlfriend) to practice. I'll let you know what works, the prices I paid, etc. etc. I'll probably start a new thread for my "data" (in case anyone was interested). Thanks again for everyone's help! I appreciate it! You've all made me feel very welcomed. __________________ Dave Daily carry = XD-9 service in a Blackhawk CQC SERPA holster, a Spyderco Native, and a Streamlight Scorpion. "Everything matters... unless it's antimatter." “A person has the right to keep and bear arms for the defense of self, family, home and State, and for hunting and recreational use.” [Delaware Constitution, Article I, § 20 Right to keep and bear arms]

07-07-2005, 05:40 AM	#4
JD McDorce XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Westland, MI Posts: 1,267	-deleted-

07-07-2005, 09:36 AM	#9
kabob983 XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 196	Yeah, if you ever break up with that girl who likes buying you guns just let me know! :P Congrats on the purchase! I'm sure it will be a great pistol for you. If there are any Academy Sports stores up there you might see if they carry Blazer 9mm ammo which here in Alabama runs $3.86/box of 50. I used it when I fired the HS2000 with no problems at all. I'm in the market for my first pistol as well and am trying to find what will fit me the best. Guess I need to shoot a bit more first though (I've never fired a Glock).

07-07-2005, 10:06 AM	#10
JD McDorce XDTalk 1K Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Westland, MI Posts: 1,267	-deleted-

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