Hand loaded -vs- commercial bullets

[Edubya]

I am trying to rationalize buying a Dillon Reloading Machine RL 550B $775.00 progressive reloading setup as shown at the following site:
Dillon Precision: Reloaders, Reloading Equipment, Bullet Reloading, Bullet Reloaders
Box of 100 130 gr. WWB .38 costs; $29.46 + $1.99 tax= $31.45
A much better self defense bullet, admittedly, must be loaded into a casing with primers and powder but those are not too expensive either...
SPEER 38 (.357) 158gr JHP BULLET VALUE PACK 450/bx
Item Number: SP4732
Price: $65.99 (X2=$132 for 900 bullets)
A pound (7000 gr.) of powder can load over 1000 bullets and an 1000 primers will cost $30. or less. You might have to buy a thousand or so shells, $120.00, to get started good, they will normally last for ten reloads.

132. for bullets
120. new brass (once fired brass can be found at ranges or bought for less than $10.00 per 100)
60. for powder and primers
$312.00 for the first 1000 and thereafter about $180.00 for top quality primed and ready bullets verses $295.00 for Wal-Mart quality target range stuff!

Ten times less money is the way I figure it, plus knowing that you have quality bullets always ready. There are lower quality bullets, but why go there at these prices, available at the below site:
Graf & Sons - 38 Caliber (.357 - .35

An equivalent "commercial self defense" round (of the above described hand loaded round) would cost $480.00 per 1000
Ammunition To Go : 500rds - 38 special Speer LE Gold Dot 125gr GDHP [53722] - $239.95

Have I missed anything in my facts a figures?

[highscore]

You numbers sound good and the Dillon 550 is an outstanding machine. I've had mine for years and have loaded thousands and thousands of rounds, from 9mm to 7BR on it. In my mind, half the fun of buying a new gun is working up a load that shoots well.

Loading for defense??? Although I am no expert on this issue, I have heard many Police Officers say that if they were ever to shoot anyone with handloads, they would lose their job and possibly their freedom. Can anyone say for sure if handloading for self defense is a good idea, legally speaking?

[Kerbouchard]

There are a few things you have missed...
1. Reloading will not save you any money, you will just shoot more for the same money.
2. Your reloads will be more accurate than any commercial ammo because your reloads will be suited to your gun/barrel/humidity/temperature/whatever...commercial ammo manufacturers must maintain tolerances so that everybody can shoot them...You don't have to.
3. If you decide to cast your own bullets and pick up range brass, you can reduce that price per thousand by over half.

As an aside, most people do not recommend starting with a progressive...I went with the Lee Classic Turret from Kemps, the price was much lower, and they sell a kit to get you started...

Also, the kit for the Dillon press that you linked does not contain dies...so you will have to add that cost into your consideration. A lot of people say that Lee dies are better than the Dillon dies...YMMV.

You also did not include...
dies(already mentioned)
Reloading books
More Reloading books
powder scale
calipers
bullet puller
lubricant
case trimmer(May or may not be needed)
tumbler/media(Personally I don't believe it's needed, but some like their brass shiny)
ummm, I'm sure there are some more, and I'm sure others will mention them...

[Kerbouchard]

Originally Posted by highscore

You numbers sound good and the Dillon 550 is an outstanding machine. I've had mine for years and have loaded thousands and thousands of rounds, from 9mm to 7BR on it. In my mind, half the fun of buying a new gun is working up a load that shoots well.

Loading for defense??? Although I am no expert on this issue, I have heard many Police Officers say that if they were ever to shoot anyone with handloads, they would lose their job and possibly their freedom. Can anyone say for sure if handloading for self defense is a good idea, legally speaking?

As far as liability, Mas Ayoob says not to use them. I have been unable, and Mr. Ayoob has yet to be able to site a case(we've asked him) where the type of round(factory vs reload) played in to a defense trial of a actual defensive shooting. He does have some case references where somebody was murdered with handloads and that did play into the jury. YMMV.

Mr. Ayoob's best reasoning was behind ballistics. He has stated that with handloads, it is not as easy to determine distance between the attacker and you, which with an overzelous DA could get you into murky water.

Using handloads for a defensive shooting just don't make enough sense, to me. Quality defensive ammo lasts a very long time. Pay attention to how many times you rechamber a round, and if you have calipers, check OAL, but you can easily get by on one box of high quality defensive ammo per year. Another advantage of reloading is you can create your own rounds that are very similiar to your defensive rounds, so that you can, in fact, pratice with what you carry, or at least pretty close.

I agree with Mas Ayoob on this one. Quality defensive ammo isn't cost prohibitive to buy(at least not yet), and if it can remove one or two red herrings an overzelous DA would try to use to confuse the jury, then I figure it's worth the $20 per year. Just my .02.

[yochujr]

I agree with the above statements. I have been loading for years and basically, if you shoot a lot and you're willing to spend some cash up front and take the time to get into it, it's well worth it. It's not just about saving money. A lot of times, I can't wait to go shoot everything up so I can come home and load again! I have a single stage press, a Lee Turret and a Dillon 550 and they all work great. If you are set on going with a progressive press, the Dillon is in my opinion one of the better ones to go with since it is manual index but there can be a few challenges with setup if you're new to reloading. I also prefer to use Lee dies mainly because that's what I already had prior to the Dillon and they've always worked great.

As for loading for self defense ammo, it's never a good idea. Any lawyer will tell you that. The good thing is, you can buy whatever defense ammo you want to carry and then you can normally load the same bullets for practice so it doesn't cost you a fortune to see how they shoot. I will warn you though, it's extremely addicting especially if you get into loading rifle rounds. You'll constantly be chasing that perfect load and once you find it, you'll start over completely and try to find a better one! It's a never ending cycle but also a very enjoyable hobby. Hope this helps a little.

[jfdavis58]

Are you buying that 550 with every bell and whistle possible? Are you just wanting practice ammo or are you loading for a competition run?

Frankly, just get the basic machine for $400 or so; learning all it's technical details will be a handful of work. A cookie sheet for lubing brass and a small box to hold the bullets near the third station is all the extra you really need beyond the basic machine. Unless you really like tinkering with all the gadgets.

[jeepinbanditrider]

Do you reload your own SD ammo? - THR

I've got 60 rounds of Hand loaded 124 grain Gold Dot in my 9mm ammo can.

Edit for another link from THR on the same subject

Are legal concerns over carrying handloads trivial? - THR

[Edubya]

I think of a single press reloader as being like a single shot gun. A progressive, like a revolver, will provide you with the same results but at a much more competent pace.

The basic progressive machine does cost only $400., ad the scales, calipers, brass cleaner, etc...(will not need trimmer) (one set of dies, your choice of caliber, comes with the basic)

I have read and studied the data on this and other machines. I know myself; I would get anxious on a single press and be liable to make too many mistakes. I think that the progressive has enough activity to keep me mentally and physically alert for more than thirty minutes at a time.

Besides, I will be using my stimulus check for this investment and the damn Chinese have gotten enough of my money!




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[fredj338]

You are on the right road. Your numbers will vary depending on options. You don;t need, or even want a case feeder up front, just another thing to mess with. You can always add it later. Despite what some guys keep trying to say, YOU SAVE MONEY handloading. Your per round cost will be 1/2 to 2/3 less than the cheapest factory ammo. What you choose to do with the "savings" is upto you. I just get tires of hearing that one. Buy you powder, bullets & primers in larger quantities for best prices (4# jug of pwoder, 5K primers & at least 1K bullets). Don;t be afraid to fire off questions, happy reloading.

[highscore]

Don't let anyone scare you away from a progressive. The Dillon is easy to use, you just have to pay attention. You can get started with the Press w/caliber conversion, a set of carbide dies, a scale so you can set the powder measure, and an inexpensive caliper. Straight walled pistol brass does not need to be trimmed, can be cleaned in a pale of simple green and dried VERY WELL. I leave mine in the hot sun for an afternoon when I have cleaned them this way. They do not even need to be lubed when using carbide dies! You can add all the bells and whistles later if you so choose. Unless you are shooting a huge amount of ammo, you will not need a case feeder or auto primer tube filler. 9mm brass can be picked up at any range as a lot of people toss it once they are fired, no need to buy it!