.45 JHP Range Report

[jon45xdtac]

The wife and I visited my folks this weekend and did some shooting in the backyard. I went through about 250 rounds of .45 WWB FMJ and a couple dozen rounds of .45 JHP WWB. Shot at a variety of distances and had a lot of fun with my wife, my dad and younger sister, all shooting my XD 45 tactical. I wanted to see both penetration and expansion of the JHP, so I stacked a half dozen blocks of 2X4's and shot into it. The bullet penetrated into the third block deep, however, it didn't really expand very much. The hollow point was filled with wood, so this may have prevented the bullet from expanding much. I've heard that some hollow points do not expand well if the nose becomes filled with some kind of material. Below is a picture of the fired bullet next to a new bullet. You can see the wood plugged into the nose of the fired bullet.


What are you your thoughts? Do you guys have any photos of expanded home defense ammo?

[ormandj]

Awesome photo. I don't really have any additional information for you, but you might want to try Federal HST. From all the photos I've seen, it does the best coping with expansion when fired through clothing/etc. Repeat the test and post photos!!!!!

Cheers,
David

[fredj338]

All JHP rely on fluid dynamics to expand, so shooting into solid material like wood will tell you nothing about the ability of a bullet to expand in tissue. Shooting into water jugs or wet phone books/newsprint, offers a more realistic expample of expansion. In my own test, the WWWB 230grJHP actually expands pretty well @ 850fps in wetpack, almost 75cal. It's a decent bullet to use for HD/SD if your pistol likes it.

[bigun]

Originally Posted by fredj338

All JHP rely on fluid dynamics to expand, so shooting into solid material like wood will tell you nothing about the ability of a bullet to expand in tissue. Shooting into water jugs or wet phone books/newsprint, offers a more realistic expample of expansion. In my own test, the WWWB 230grJHP actually expands pretty well @ 850fps in wetpack, almost 75cal. It's a decent bullet to use for HD/SD if your pistol likes it.

It's all I carry in my 1911's accurate and reliable function at a affordable ish price so I can practice with it and not feel guilty every time I pull the trigger.

[Myk9noseknows]

Testing "expansion" into a solid media like wood is pretty much pointless. You need some sort of soft type tissue for the bullet to expand as it was designed. That's why a lot of people use water as their testing medium.

I have some ammo saved that was fired through a wall at home. It filled with sheet rock and only expanded a very small degree. I don't have pics taken, but I"m sure I can dig some up. But the point is to use a soft, water type medium to aid the expansion.

Shoot the same ammo into a pool or a few jugs of water and you're pretty much guaranteed expansion. The human body is about 85% water anyways.

[Jim B]

Boy was I glad to see this thread!

I did testing on 44Mag hollow points, in preparation for a hunting trip several years ago. Found when I shot them into water soaked bundles of newspaper that the same thing occurred. At THAT time I tested Lead-SWC's, JHP's as well as jacketed soft points.......of course the hard lead SWC's penetrated deepest and no expansion.....next were the hollow points, to my surprise, from bullet to bullet (about six fired per type-one cylinder full) they either expanded minimally-without exceeding the base diameter of the bullet OR they filled in from their own lead OR the soaked paper filled in the cavity and they became a streamlined jacketed bullet. The soft points actually expanded like crazy and I used them for my hunting trip.

I've wondered about hollow points at the lower .45acp velocities and if I"d run into the same problem with hollow points just plugging up and becoming jacketed torpedo's....I was told at a gun shop at THAT time that I needed to push my 44Mag HP's faster to get expansion.....but gez I was at near max pressures at the time.

J

[jon45xdtac]

I didn't expect optimal results from firing into something as hard as wood. I know that HP's are intended to work in liquid based medium (flesh). This was just an end of the day, "lets give this a try", type of thing. I would be interested in testing a number of HD ammo in a variety of medium including tubs of water, large jello blocks, water jugs with heavy jeans or thick coats in front of it, etc. I've heard that sometimes even when fired into water jugs, with heavy clothing like jeans or down coats in front of it, the nose can still get clogged with material and not really expand. I'm not trying to disprove effectiveness of hollow point ammo, I'm just curious. Thought you guys might enjoy the photo.

We ended the day by setting up half a dozen foot long 2X4's next to each other and tried shooting each of them down as fast as possible. Kind of a less expensive alternative to steel targets that knock down. All in all it was a great day. My folks have always been anti-gun, so this was the first time my dad has shot a handgun. It was nice to bridge a gap for them and help them become more comfortable with firearms. Thats always a delicate matter with people who are afraid of guns.

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by Jim B

Boy was I glad to see this thread!

I did testing on 44Mag hollow points, in preparation for a hunting trip several years ago. Found when I shot them into water soaked bundles of newspaper that the same thing occurred. At THAT time I tested Lead-SWC's, JHP's as well as jacketed soft points.......of course the hard lead SWC's penetrated deepest and no expansion.....next were the hollow points, to my surprise, from bullet to bullet (about six fired per type-one cylinder full) they either expanded minimally-without exceeding the base diameter of the bullet OR they filled in from their own lead OR the soaked paper filled in the cavity and they became a streamlined jacketed bullet. The soft points actually expanded like crazy and I used them for my hunting trip.

I've wondered about hollow points at the lower .45acp velocities and if I"d run into the same problem with hollow points just plugging up and becoming jacketed torpedo's....I was told at a gun shop at THAT time that I needed to push my 44Mag HP's faster to get expansion.....but gez I was at near max pressures at the time.

J

I've had exactly the opp. exp. testing in water soaked phone books or newspaper. If your JHP were not expanding, then you aren't pushing them fast enough. What was your load & what vel. were you running? I assumed you have run them over a chronograph, otherwise your are just WAG.

[AZXD]

Originally Posted by fredj338

All JHP rely on fluid dynamics to expand, so shooting into solid material like wood will tell you nothing about the ability of a bullet to expand in tissue. Shooting into water jugs or wet phone books/newsprint, offers a more realistic expample of expansion. In my own test, the WWWB 230grJHP actually expands pretty well @ 850fps in wetpack, almost 75cal. It's a decent bullet to use for HD/SD if your pistol likes it.

What you state is true and is exactly why, if you are after BIG holes, you need to conduct some level of scientific testing.

Case in point:
Firearm: Browning Hi-Power
Barrel Length: 4.75"
Caliber: 9MM Luger
Bullet Diameter: 0.355"
Bullet Weight: 95 grains
Make: PMC JHP
Velocity: 1314 FPS
Recovered Bullet Diameter: 0.787"
Recovered Bullet Weight: 73.7 grains
Distance From Muzzle: 20'


The same bullet (name), from the same manufacturer, does not perform this well in 45cal. So velocity is a big factor that needs to be accounted for as it directly relates to the ability of the projectiles expansion ability. Also, each bullet design will have an optimum velocity that provides designed expansion to occur. The further from this design specification you are, the worse the bullet will perform.


Side note for all:

The data is a little old, but interesting none the less, and might provide a direction toward further investigation.

terminal ballistics