Implications with using LEO ammo

[newbie_nick]

Has anybody every thought of or discussed the legal implications of a non-LEO individual using LEO ammo in an actual shooting? Now, from a law standpoint, there isn't anything illegal with using this ammo, but a decision handed down by a jury isn't always about the law. It's the perception that they react to. There are several HP ammo types out there (see below) that are intended for LEO only, but us civilians can get them through a few sources online.

Federal HST
Federal Tactical Bonded
Winchester Ranger T

The reason that I ask about this is that HST seems to be a great round from the data that I've seen, and it actually seems to be cheaper than Gold Dots on several sites. I'm not sure what the criminal law or civil law implications might be. Are there any lawyers that could weigh in on this?

Nick

[digitalexplr]

Any ammo you use is either going to be military grade (FMJ) or civilian law enforcement grade (JHP). Any anti-gun attorney is going to try to paint you as a guncrazed whacko. If you sweat the small stuff, it's probably best not to carry a ccw.

[Bree]

Originally Posted by newbie_nick

Has anybody every thought of or discussed the legal implications of a non-LEO individual using LEO ammo in an actual shooting? Now, from a law standpoint, there isn't anything illegal with using this ammo, but a decision handed down by a jury isn't always about the law. It's the perception that they react to. There are several HP ammo types out there (see below) that are intended for LEO only, but us civilians can get them through a few sources online.

Federal HST
Federal Tactical Bonded
Winchester Ranger T

The reason that I ask about this is that HST seems to be a great round from the data that I've seen, and it actually seems to be cheaper than Gold Dots on several sites. I'm not sure what the criminal law or civil law implications might be. Are there any lawyers that could weigh in on this?

Nick

The goal of the ammunition I use for self defense is to immediately incapacitate a person or persons who pose an imminent threat of a nature that justifies the use of deadly force under the laws of the state I am in at the time of the shooting. Ammunition designed for police use is designed to accomplish exactly that goal and to offer maximum protection to innocent bystanders by minimizing overpenetration. It will typically offer additional advantages relative to shooting through laminated auto glass and the like. These are all quite consistent with the self defense justification for the use of deadly force.

Frankly, you may be more likely to have to justify use of something other than ammunition marked Law Enforcement Only as that kind of ammunition may be designed for goals inconsistent with the self defense purpose.

Legally, the LE Only label is usually a marketing tool of the manufacturer and generally has no import whatsoever. The exception would be where a round is armor piercing or the like and it is strictly forbidden by law fro anyone other than military and LEOs.

New Jersey forbids CCW holders from carrying hollowpoints in their guns. Law enforcement officers may carry them. Oddly enough you can buy them, use them for sports, keep them in your home etc. You just can't load your carry gun with them. That is one kind of situation where a LE only label could conceivably be applied to ordinary ammo though it isn't in the case of NJ. (NJ residents can correct me if I got the law wrong relative to hollow points. I am from NY.)
My $.02.


PS... I use LE HST and LE EFMJ in my XD-45C. I have also used LE Ranger T in my .380 until I switched to Corbon DPX which is not marked LE.

[blefferd]

i didnt know there was such a thing as "LEO" ammo, must be the same as the Law enforcement only high cap Mags!, i thought they marked the boxes "For Law enforcment use only" to jack up the prices for us civilians when we buy it

and unless every police station in the US has one set standard and caliber of ammunition that they all use there is no real way to figure out what is REALLY law enforcement ammo and what is not. and what is labeled that way to get a premium price out of the consumer.

who is to say johnny law isnt going to go to the local walmart and purchase a box of WWB HP and load his duty weapon up with them.

[propellerhead]

Why would ammo matter if it's a justified shooting?

[Bree]

Originally Posted by blefferd

i didnt know there was such a thing as "LEO" ammo, must be the same as the Law enforcement only high cap Mags!, i thought they marked the boxes "For Law enforcment use only" to jack up the prices for us civilians when we buy it

and unless every police station in the US has one set standard and caliber of ammunition that they all use there is no real way to figure out what is REALLY law enforcement ammo and what is not. and what is labeled that way to get a premium price out of the consumer.

who is to say johnny law isnt going to go to the local walmart and purchase a box of WWB HP and load his duty weapon up with them.

Read your state firearms laws. Determine if any ammunition is restricted by statute to LEO or military use only. If not, then you can use it. The LE Only label doesn't matter except as a marketing directive from the manufacturer.

[Hwkeye]

It may just work the oposite way for you. It is intended for law enforcement use. LEOS are government employees, so you chose ammo that was recomended for use by government employees. All you did was use ammo that is made for officials. The theory may go, if the ammo is good enough for a LEO, then it should be good enough for the individual. You may argue the fact that you used the ammo because it was good enough for law enforcement, therefore you trusted your life to the better quality. There are so many ways it can go on the stand, and ammo would be such a small factor, unless you were using illegal ammo. Any good trial lawyer would probably be able to fight that fact. All ammo is made to kill. All ammo companies and ammo makes market their special ways to kill people easier. Any good Public defender or lawer would read the box and try to rape you with whatever it says. Just look what it says on my box of standard Gold Dot .38 Spcs:

"Gold Dot is designed for optimum expansion and penetration to meet the strict standards for law enforcement ammunition."

There is no escaping the fact that a CCW firearm is ment to stop or kill an agressor. LEO ammo or not, you can argue your reason for using it...

[Bree]

Originally Posted by propellerhead

Why would ammo matter if it's a justified shooting?

Assume you are in NJ and you have a carry permit, a BG assaults you and you rightfully defend yourself and pop him. If you do so with a hollow point and you are not a LEO, you score a weapons charge since use of hollow points in carry guns is illegal for ordinary folks.

The self defense action was justified but the means was not legal.

[BukWild]

I would think it would help you, if you shoot a BG with LEO ammo, then why would you be accused for that, it is what the professionals use to stop BG's?
They don't try police officers for justified shootings.

[Hwkeye]

Originally Posted by BukWild

I would think it would help you, if you shoot a BG with LEO ammo, then why would you be accused for that, it is what the professionals use to stop BG's?
They don't try police officers for justified shootings.

What I was trying to say, but couldnt get it out right! Thanks!