ammo for home defense that won't penetrate a wall ?

[lobster_roboto]

I think the main problem with the Type 3 is it's complexity in use...

and compared to the Cardassian phase disrupter rifle is kind of a weeny on the battle field.

Think of the Type 3 as a Type 2 with a automatic "forward assist"
The stock holds extra components to exactly what you are talking about.
Speed up the rate of fire etc etc.

[nickb]

I think this is a first on XDtalk. The Trekkie's have hijacked a thread.

[The Tengu]

Originally Posted by lobster_roboto

I think the main problem with the Type 3 is it's complexity in use...

and compared to the Cardassian phase disrupter rifle is kind of a weeny on the battle field.

Think of the Type 3 as a Type 2 with a automatic "forward assist"
The stock holds extra components to exactly what you are talking about.
Speed up the rate of fire etc etc.

Just like real life. The good guys have to settle for Type 3/5.56, and Type 2/9mm while the bad guys can use whatever the hell they want.

[jeepinbanditrider]

Hey the Federation just needs to clean their more often

[LMychajluk]

Excuse me for asking an on-topic question....

For any given bullet design, wouldn't a lighter bullet be 'safer' in terms of penetrating a wall? For example, the Federal Hydra-Shok bullet in 180gr has a muzzle velocity / energy of 1000/400, which drops to 901/324 at 100yds. The 135gr bullet, on the other hand, has a muzzle velocity / energy of 1200/432 and 957/274 at 100yds. The lighter bullet has a higher initial energy, but loses it faster. So, at the closest ranges, the lighter bullet has an energy advantage, right? In addition, I would think that if a bullet hit, say, a piece of plywood, a lighter bullet would need to use the same ammount of energy to penetrate that piece of wood as a heavier bullet, but would lose more velocity in the process?

I can see situations where a heavier bullet would be preferred (outdoors at longer ranges, heavier cover like cars, etc...), but for indoor in an apartment, I think the lighter bullet would be the better choice, no?

[Python]

Originally Posted by LMychajluk

Excuse me for asking an on-topic question....

For any given bullet design, wouldn't a lighter bullet be 'safer' in terms of penetrating a wall? For example, the Federal Hydra-Shok bullet in 180gr has a muzzle velocity / energy of 1000/400, which drops to 901/324 at 100yds. The 135gr bullet, on the other hand, has a muzzle velocity / energy of 1200/432 and 957/274 at 100yds. The lighter bullet has a higher initial energy, but loses it faster. So, at the closest ranges, the lighter bullet has an energy advantage, right? In addition, I would think that if a bullet hit, say, a piece of plywood, a lighter bullet would need to use the same ammount of energy to penetrate that piece of wood as a heavier bullet, but would lose more velocity in the process?

I can see situations where a heavier bullet would be preferred (outdoors at longer ranges, heavier cover like cars, etc...), but for indoor in an apartment, I think the lighter bullet would be the better choice, no?

I'm afraid not. Bullet energy is a function of mass and velocity. Decrease the mass and you increase the velocity. Given more or less standard construction materials (sheetrock, plywood, glass), before the bullet got so light that it wouldn't penetrate, it would become totally useless. The best you can get here is prefragmented bullets, such as the Glaser Safety Slug, that will penetrate the first wall and then will fragment into many small pieces that will not penetrate the second.

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by Python

I'm afraid not. Bullet energy is a function of mass and velocity. Decrease the mass and you increase the velocity. Given more or less standard construction materials (sheetrock, plywood, glass), before the bullet got so light that it wouldn't penetrate, it would become totally useless. The best you can get here is prefragmented bullets, such as the Glaser Safety Slug, that will penetrate the first wall and then will fragment into many small pieces that will not penetrate the second.

Even the Glaser will go through more than 6 layers of drywall, check out the Box of Truth The Box O' Truth #4 - Miscellaneous Rounds Meet the Box O' Truth. It won't have much left but it will still get there. The other thing to think about is if the BG is armed & shooting @ you, where are his bullets going if you allow him to stay in the fight? The Glaser is pretty effective on a bare ribcage but put an arm bone in front & you are likely to inflict a nasty surface wound. Your choice. Yes a lighter JHP will penetrate less, but you still have the same problem w/ intermediate barriers or furniture, heavy clothing on a really big BG, etc.

[Python]

Originally Posted by Jeff XD

If you are really worried about penetration you might want to check out some shotguns. I am using 04 shot in mine. I don't think it will penetrate the drywall and still have enough power to kill someone. You lose some of the accuracy of a pistol, but at short ranges the shot pattern will not open up to much. IMO

Jeff, look at the numbers. In general, a shotgun throws a one ounce shot charge at about 1200 feet per second. The average engagement range in a typical house will be about 15 feet. At 15 feet most of the shot charge is still in the shot cup. This means that it acts like a single projectile. One ounce is a little over 400 grains. Does anyone think that a 400 grain bullet traveling at 1200 fps is not going to blow through a wall? I wouldn't want my wife or child to be standing a couple of feet on the other side when that load comes through.

[XD 9 Loaded Sub-Compact]

So it looks like if you are worried about bullet penetration you need ethier rubber stun bullets like the police have for riot control, or a super soaker full of habenero sauce.

[The Tengu]

Originally Posted by Python

Jeff, look at the numbers. In general, a shotgun throws a one ounce shot charge at about 1200 feet per second. The average engagement range in a typical house will be about 15 feet. At 15 feet most of the shot charge is still in the shot cup. This means that it acts like a single projectile. One ounce is a little over 400 grains. Does anyone think that a 400 grain bullet traveling at 1200 fps is not going to blow through a wall? I wouldn't want my wife or child to be standing a couple of feet on the other side when that load comes through.

Yeah, and a Glaser or Magsafe does the same thing.

Really, there is no "safe" indoor round unless your walls are made of steel and you're using frangible indoor range ammo.