Hollow point ammo used in Iraq? - XDTalk Forums - Your HS2000/SA-XD Information Source!

wcmaas · 06-09-2005, 03:57 PM

Does anyone know if our guys are using good stuff (Corbon, Hydrashok, etc) in Iraq or do they have to use the FMJ ball stuff?

one-eyed-fatman · 06-09-2005, 04:33 PM

My guess is ball ammo. It goes all the way through making you bleed faster and after it passes through one person can do damage to a second person.

gsh341 · 06-09-2005, 04:41 PM

I read (in SOF I think) that snipers are using hollow point ammo for ballistics reasons. Supposed to fly straighter or something. Of course, I personally have no proof. Can anyone back that up?

nocalkind · 06-09-2005, 05:05 PM

According to the Geneva Convention, all armies must use ball ammo. According to the accords, no weapon shall cause unecessary damage to a soldier. Seems silly to me, considering the goal is usually to kill the person. Also, I read once that ball damage inflicts greater overall damage to the enemy force because they will have more wounded men to take care of and have to spend more money doing so...

NiK · 06-09-2005, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nocalkind

According to the Geneva Convention, all armies must use ball ammo. According to the accords, no weapon shall cause unecessary damage to a soldier. Seems silly to me, considering the goal is usually to kill the person. Also, I read once that ball damage inflicts greater overall damage to the enemy force because they will have more wounded men to take care of and have to spend more money doing so...

That's actually not part of the Geneva Convention, which deals primarily with the treatment of POWs. The Hague convention, which the US signed, does state that it is forbidden to use arms which cause unnecessary suffering. However JAG has approved certain types of hollow point ammo to be used.

Edit: GSH341, I looked it up and I believe you are referring to the Sierra Matchking 7.62 BTHP.

**beardman2** · 06-09-2005, 08:45 PM

I can't remember where I read it but I believe they are using ball ammo in iraq on conventional targets but anything classified as "Was on terror" doesn't fall under the same rules so they are allowing other stuff.

gsh341 · 06-09-2005, 10:08 PM

Nik,

I do remember now that they did say the round was a boat tail.

Thanks for the backup.

Figgy1682 · 06-10-2005, 10:04 AM

well my buddy did 2 tours in iraq and they use fmj cause the were not allowed to use hollow points

ForGreatJustice · 06-11-2005, 07:54 PM

1) The Hague Convention is what prohibits the use of expanding ammunition.
2) JAG has indeed approved the use of HP for certain units and op
3) The military STILL, via policy, generally prohibits the use of HP, and soldiers can get in trouble for having it.
4) The doctrine of "shoot to wound" has been debunked somewhat, and all I have heard from the military denies subscribing (or ever having subscribed) to such a doctrine officially.
5) The MK262 Mod 0 and 1, that is, the Sierra Matchking and Nosler OTHP have hollow tips as a result of the construction method of the bullet and (this is speculation) I think this is implicity understood as not being an "intentional" hollowpoint.
6) FMJ *may* cause more blood loss than HP, but HP, via expansion will cause greater tissue damage if it is placed correctly. An HP that penetrates enough to go through will probably cause more damage than an FMJ. I speculate that shoot-through is not as big an issue in military settings as it is in the civilian world.

dyferant · 06-12-2005, 10:55 AM

I recently read that they are using hollow point ammo in the 6.8's that are being used.

06-09-2005, 03:57 PM	#1
wcmaas XDTalk Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: The OC, DPR Kalifornia Posts: 34	Hollow point ammo used in Iraq? Does anyone know if our guys are using good stuff (Corbon, Hydrashok, etc) in Iraq or do they have to use the FMJ ball stuff? __________________ Bill Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit.

06-09-2005, 04:33 PM	#2
one-eyed-fatman XDTalk 10K Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 10,163	My guess is ball ammo. It goes all the way through making you bleed faster and after it passes through one person can do damage to a second person. __________________ corporate America's logo: If at first you don't succeed lower your standards and beg the government for bailout money. Our governments bought and sold by corporate America like pigs going to market. I'm waking up at the start of the end of the world. http://home.houston.rr.com/gunpics/images/one%20eye.wav

06-09-2005, 04:41 PM	#3
gsh341 XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Posts: 2,357	I read (in SOF I think) that snipers are using hollow point ammo for ballistics reasons. Supposed to fly straighter or something. Of course, I personally have no proof. Can anyone back that up? __________________ "For those of us who exercised our privilege to serve our country, I can honestly say we did it proudly and shared a common bond of patriotism that those who were unwilling to answer our country's call will never understand or appreciate." - Dennis Foell

06-09-2005, 05:05 PM	#4
nocalkind XDTalk Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Northern CA Posts: 46	.. According to the Geneva Convention, all armies must use ball ammo. According to the accords, no weapon shall cause unecessary damage to a soldier. Seems silly to me, considering the goal is usually to kill the person. Also, I read once that ball damage inflicts greater overall damage to the enemy force because they will have more wounded men to take care of and have to spend more money doing so...

06-09-2005, 08:45 PM	#6
beardman2 XDTalk 4K Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,950	I can't remember where I read it but I believe they are using ball ammo in iraq on conventional targets but anything classified as "Was on terror" doesn't fall under the same rules so they are allowing other stuff. __________________ - He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from opposition; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach himself. ~Thomas Paine I will not be involved with the dreams of angry men. Founding Documents Freedom isn't free: http://www.anysoldier.com

06-09-2005, 10:08 PM	#7
gsh341 XDTalk 2K Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Posts: 2,357	Nik, I do remember now that they did say the round was a boat tail. Thanks for the backup. __________________ "For those of us who exercised our privilege to serve our country, I can honestly say we did it proudly and shared a common bond of patriotism that those who were unwilling to answer our country's call will never understand or appreciate." - Dennis Foell

06-10-2005, 10:04 AM	#8
Figgy1682 XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 340	well my buddy did 2 tours in iraq and they use fmj cause the were not allowed to use hollow points __________________ Figgy

06-11-2005, 07:54 PM	#9
ForGreatJustice XDTalk Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Central FL. Posts: 93	Just the facts ma'am 1) The Hague Convention is what prohibits the use of expanding ammunition. 2) JAG has indeed approved the use of HP for certain units and op 3) The military STILL, via policy, generally prohibits the use of HP, and soldiers can get in trouble for having it. 4) The doctrine of "shoot to wound" has been debunked somewhat, and all I have heard from the military denies subscribing (or ever having subscribed) to such a doctrine officially. 5) The MK262 Mod 0 and 1, that is, the Sierra Matchking and Nosler OTHP have hollow tips as a result of the construction method of the bullet and (this is speculation) I think this is implicity understood as not being an "intentional" hollowpoint. 6) FMJ may cause more blood loss than HP, but HP, via expansion will cause greater tissue damage if it is placed correctly. An HP that penetrates enough to go through will probably cause more damage than an FMJ. I speculate that shoot-through is not as big an issue in military settings as it is in the civilian world. __________________ -Dammit. There goes my .50 CHOAD

06-12-2005, 10:55 AM	#10
dyferant XDTalk 100 Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Las Vegas Baby Posts: 310	I recently read that they are using hollow point ammo in the 6.8's that are being used.

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