EXTREMEreloadingPROBLEMS/range report/ALL ADVISE NEEDED

[XD 40 mike]

Hows it going everyone?! Happy "holiday" lol. Just to inform other readers and my regular question answering buddies; I bought the Lee Progressive 1000 (3 die system). I also bought an additional Stage 1 press; smaller press used just for the Carbide Factory Crimp die.

I have been reading the HELL out of my Lee, Modern Reloading book and am still having alot of trouble and have experimented a few different times with my reloads at the range.

Anyways, I was told to back the crimp/seating (3rd die) out so it seats only; I have stayed between 1.115 - 1.135 inches as stated everywhere. I'm having bullets detach from their casings and getting stuck inside the barrel; not fired and "corked" though, just stuck a bit before the rifiling it seems. They pop out with a good amount of force from the muzzel end using my bore brush. Most of the time I have to apply roughly 60-80% of all of my strength to release it. However, sometimes they slip right out using maybe enough strength as it takes to rack the slide.

Also when they (do) actualy fire, they hardly feed reliably. Sometimes when I go to fire it will "click," like when dry fired. Then I drop the mag and go to release it by locking the slide back. The bullet will actualy (almost) come completely out of the casing. I meassured some of those after I got home with my digital caliper I was advised to buy, and they came to be pulled to 1.965 inches or so. Some of the ones that "dry fired clicked" however did not stretch at all; as they did not have a problem being released.

Sometimes after a good round was fired, when the slide returned to fire the next round loaded, the striker pin was not pertruded all the way from the back of the slide like it normaly would be when ready to fire. Sometimes I could just hit the back of the slide hard enough to knock it the rest of the way forward into firing position. It would sometimes be enough to get it to fire, sometimes I couldn't get the slide to budge forward at all. Then sometimes when one would again, "dry fire click" I ejected the round to inspect it; it would have a slight ding on the primer like a normal fired casing would. I though maybe I didn't put powder in that particular round or something. Then after firing the rest of the magazine out, I loaded the "dinged primer" round straight into barrel while the slide was locked back, then let the slide slam forward by releasing the slide lock, it fired! I did this with all of the rounds that did this, which was 4 or more atleast. It's like the slide isn't returning all of the way forward for the striker to hit the primer enough to ingnite it or something. This would mean my rounds are to long though? My caliper is not wrong, un-calibrated, and is correctly zero(d).

Also, I was already told the reason for this next ordeal but on my last trip to the range, I was having these "gold granules/specs" everywhere about gun powder sized or so. I was told this was infact gunpowder, but halfway unburned or something to that effect. Anyways, I was also told this was from the ammunition not being crimped tight enough, so therefore they weren't being burned correctly and air was leaking inside the casing when it expands as it's being fired. So I went back and tightened down my 4th die (crimp die) and boom, I had no more golden granules or whatever on the next trip to the range, but still had the other problems listed above, which I have had on all of my trips to the range. However, they were reduced EXTREMELY on the trip that I was just speaking of about the "no more golden grains" deal. Anyways, I was then advised to back out my 3rd die COMPLETELY to hopefully fix all of those problems, so I did this by:

Taking the 3rd die completely out and setting it aside. Bring an empty flared shell in the shell holder all of the way to the top and holding it there. Then I screwed down the die untill I saw the shell (touched.) Basicaly, when I saw that shell turn at at all with the rotation of the die of course, I backed the die out so (it was not touching at all.) Then tightened the lock ring. Back out the shell, slap a bullet on, and then find your bullet seating depth as usual. While that is done. I still had all of those problems though.

Just so I am clear because I know that I always sound confusing:

1) My firt "batch" of bullets had the 3rd die STILL crimping "slightly" though, not the same amount of crimp you would use as if there were NO 4th die at all. However, the 4th die was not crimped ALOT. The result was the golden grainy powder and the rest above.

2) Second batch of bullets; I backed out the 3rd die slgihtly hardly at all. Just for reference to you readers of the actual crimping postition, this is the only way I can explain it to you: You would put the shell all the way up (like I was explaining earlier), screw the die down even PAST the part where it turns the shell a few rotations before it actualy stops. Then tightened the crimp on the 4th die SLIGHTLY. The result of this was NO MORE grainy golden powder, bullets falling out of their casings, but still had feeding problems and or the "dry fire clicking/dinged primers.)

3) Third batch of bullets; I then did what I described earlier by back out the 3rd die crimp. Then I tightened the crimp on my 4th die even more. Now there is scraping of mouths I guess you would say of all of the casings. Like it was polished or something, you can literaly see from 10 feet away, that there's a ring around the top of every casing. Basicaly, I thought this meant that there was to much crimp, so I backed it off untill it stopped and or was minimal, but was still at a slighty tighter crimp than the previous batch. The result of this was, back to the grainy golden powder stuff, bullets falling out, dry fire clicking, dinged primers (then re-fired), and feeding problems all to hell, you name it, it happened. Back to square one!

Thanks everyone and hope you have a happy holiday! I will try as well, lol. I would appreciate the advise of anyone if you don't runaway from my long drawn out post in the first place lol. I would especialy appreciate the advise of the people with similar systems, and if you do have a similar system and do not have these problems, it would be nice to here a detailed instruction of the last two die's. Thanks guys,


Mike

[SteveW1958]

Well it sounds like you may be belling the case mouth too much and the bullets are not being retained. Three things to check make sure you are sizing the cases correctly, not belling more than .001 to .003 and that your crimp die is set up to do a medium crimp.
If the side is not going into battery it may be that your cases or crimp are too big. Use a case gauge or your barrel out of the gun to test this. I load on a Dillon so I can’t advise you as to how to set up your press. I would suggest removing your dies and start over following the manual very closely.
Good luck
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[XD 40 mike]

I just edited my first post in more detail because I thought it didn't make much sense.

Thanks for your response, belling meaning flare correct? It shouldn't be belled more than .001 - .003 from it's original condition out of the box; I am using used casings also.

[SteveW1958]

Belling - flare yup same thing. After you resize the case measure it at the mouth. Then after you flare it is should be .001 to .003 larger.
Also you did not mention what caliber you are loading.

One other comment. It's not a great idea to allow the side to slam into battery with a round in the chamber. It puts a lot of stress on the extractor, and can damage or break it.

[XD 40 mike]

Lmao, sorry about that. I am using a 40 caliber.

One other comment. It's not a great idea to allow the side to slam into battery with a round in the chamber. It puts a lot of stress on the extractor, and can damage or break it.

Really, thank's for the fact; I really didn't know that to be honest.

And thanks to both; again, for responding. I will meassure that up right now as we speak and post back to you guys.

[XD 40 mike]

Excellent, I meassured 6 rounds after passing through the sizing/de-priming die, 4 of which were .419, another being .420, and another at .421 inches in diameter. Not in that order though. I then measured .428 - .430 inches after passing through the next die. Damn, sounds like I'm a bit off LOL.

I see why this would be a problem when then (skipping) crimping on the next die, passing it right along to the Carbide Factory Crimper at a whopping .430 inches; being that the reason of getting scraped/shaved casing mouths. I am still a little in wonder though how this would effect any overal performance (being the problems I stated earlier.)

If I put a 50 caliber bullet "hypotheticaly" through this die, it should still come out to whatever it usualy would; when putting a .422-.424 inch casing through it, wouldn't it?

Also another question about that die now that it reminds me, when a round is going up it, (hard to describe) it basicaly has two different "steps" or "stops," how about restrictions, we'll try for that then, lol.

Anyways: round is on it's way up, then it stops, then you have to apply more pressure to finish the stroke. It does this again a second time (stopping/restricting) thus having to add an even greater amount of pressure to finish the stroke. Right near the top when it looks like the shell holder is just a tad or so away from touching the die, there is another stop/restriction, but this one is different than the other two, the other two feel very similar to eachother. The third is much more stiff, and does not click or anything like that when passing it. It takes more pressure for that stop/restriction is what I am trying to say. On the way out, the round clicks twice, just as it did almost identicaly as the first two restrictions when going up. It almost feels they are in the same place as well. But the there is not 3 restrictions on the way out; as there are 3 on the way in.

[R/T Performance]

Originally Posted by SteveW1958

One other comment. It's not a great idea to allow the side to slam into battery with a round in the chamber. It puts a lot of stress on the extractor, and can damage or break it.

What? And when you fire it doesn't slam shut .The repeated dropping on a half way extracted or stuck round will brake your extractor not a properly seated in the pipe round.
OK mike first of all what kind of primer are you using? and are they seating fully.
The belling of the Case is just to keep the bullet from hanging on the edge of the case.
When I first started I was not crimping well enough and they wouldn't load properly.
Standard case diameter is .420 at the crimp my come out to.415 that is the very edge with the narrow point of the calipers
Also what kind of bullet are you using? Makes allot of difference on seating depth

[invssgt]

XD40 Mike,

Tell us what-

1) Bullet

2) Case

3) Powder (including charge)

4) Primer

5) Brand of dies

You are using. Forgive me if you mentioned this somewhere in your original post, but it was just too much info for me to process.

[WyoBob]

It sounds like your expander plug is too large of a diameter.
For reference, WWW 165 grain bullets measure .414" right at the crimp (bullet/case interface) and .418" when measured in the middle of where the bullet sets in the case (.120" down from the crimp edge). My reloads, with 180 grain West Coast plated bullets measure .420" right at the crimp (bullet/case interface) and .419" when measured in the middle of where the bullet sets in the case (.120" down from the crimp edge). Looks like my reloads could use a bit more crimp.
I'm no expert but, as I understand it, case tension on the bullet, which is a function of the expander plug diameter, is what holds the bullet in place. The taper crimp is mainly to remove the case mouth bell.

WyoBob

[SteveW1958]

What? And when you fire it doesn't slam shut .The repeated dropping on a half way extracted or stuck round will brake your extractor not a properly seated in the pipe round.

R/T Performance

When the slide strips a round off the mag in normal functioning, the case rim slides under the extractor hook as the slide moves forward. Weather the round is fully seated or not the extractor hook is still forced over the case rim. On a fully chambered round the forces would be greater as the slide has traveled farther and has more inertia behind it. I am not sure about the XD owners manual (I don’t have one in front of me) but most pistol manufactures advise against dropping the side on a chambered a round.

I'm no expert but, as I understand it, case tension on the bullet, which is a function of the expander plug diameter, is what holds the bullet in place. The taper crimp is mainly to remove the case mouth bell.

WyoBob

This is my understanding as well. Although I believe the crimp does provide some bullet retention, but can not overcome excessive mouth diameter.


The seating die or the crimp die will not change the diameter of the bullet. The seater just applies downward pressure to set the bullet to the correct depth. The crimp die is designed with a taper (greater taper for a roll crimp) to remove the belling that was created to make bullet seating easier. One way to verify you have created a solid round, is to place the bullet nose vertically on a scale. With a block of wood (to save your fingers), push down on the back of the case. With a reasonable pressure (I expect about 40 # on my 357 SIG reloads I have not recently checked my 40's) the bullet should not move back more than a couple of thousandths.

Again I am not familiar with your press. I would not expect to feel anything but a smooth stroke as you activate the ram through it's full range. This may not be the case with your press. Hopefully some one with first hand knowledge of your press will chime in.