Best 9mm manstopper (?) load

[1lowlife]

Originally Posted by Chris Pierce

Cor-bon 115 +p is what I carry in my 9mm

ditto

[crushert]

Originally Posted by apollosmith

OK, so two resources have been posted so far in this thread and both pretty much contradict each other. One says never use 147 grain in a 9mm and the other says it's da bomb. Who to believe?!?

Yep, ain't that a hoot? Personally, I think anyone who chooses to use the term "sucks" when writing a paper that is intended to be an objective analysis loses a bit of credibility. Makes me think some high school or college sophomore wrote the piece.

My XD eats everything including 147 gr ammo. Currently got some Speer 115 gr Gold Dots loaded in one magazine. Some Remington 147gr Golden Sabre in another. May eventually settle on 124 gr +P in either the Speer or the Remington once I've tried a few more of each.

Hey, anybody notice that the Speer ammo is about $16 for a box of 20 and others (such as Remington) are about $22 for 25. What's with the big price difference?

[fyrfytrcwd]

Cor-Bon 115-gr +P DPX... AWESOME round.

[XD45Chris]

I'm just learning all of this so please be patient. It seems like everybody has picked a hollow point round. I understand wanting to make the wound channel as wide as possible, but doesn't that destroy your penetration? I've always been told that penetration is what you want. From hunting deer to stopping a brown bear to stopping a bad guy, the bullet needs to get through the important stuff and everything that was in front of it right? It seems to me like I'd want the heaviest bullet I can reliably shoot, in a solid configuration that wont open up and stop as soon as it hits something. If the bad guy's just wearing a T shirt the hollow points might be a great way to go, but how do you know what you're going to need to shoot through? What if you have to shoot through some glass or drywall? (I know, know your target and what's beyond it...)

Also, I agree a shot to the brain is the only 100% guaranteed stopper, and if the guy's got your daughter as a hostage then by all means do it, but otherwise isn't that an execution/murder? I was told to shoot a good controlled pair to the chest and then IF there's a failure to stop squeeze off one good one to the eyes/nose. You're trying to STOP him, death is a possible by product but not the goal.

Again, I'm a newbie and am just trying to learn. This seems like a great forum.

Chris

[crushert]

Don't worry, nobody around here is gonna flame you for asking questions. Hollow-points (HP) are what you want in a carry gun. FMJ (full metal jacketed) ammo does not expand and stands a much higher chance of going through the bad guy than expanding inside the body and stopping without exiting. Save it for practice.

Others with much more info on the subject will certainly post more information or offer more insight, but you want the most reliable ammo in your gun instead of the heaviest bullet. I don't think the hollow points becoming clogged with clothing is much of a concern, at least not to the point of using FMJ ammo instead of HPs.

In my concealed carry class, the instructor told us the goal is to stop the attack. You do whatever it takes. If that means emptying all 15 or 16 rounds of my XD9 before he hits the floor, then so be it. He didn't mention anything about taking head shots if shots to center mass don't work at first.

Browse the ammo forum and you'll find all sorts of info on ammo selection and debates over which brand or bullet design is best. You'll never convince me that whether someone lives or dies will come down to whether or not someone used Gold Dots instead of Hydra-shocks or Golden Sabres. Just find some ammo that works reliably in your XD and practice with it.

[stretdr]

Winchester Ranger 147 gr. Two to the chest and then one to the head. Stops them every time. I am a 9mm/380 fan, however have the XD 5" Tactical in my nightstand. 45 has more stopping power of course, but the 9 will bring 'em down as well. In my line of work, Paramedic and Deputy Coroner...95% of the homicides that I have worked have been caused by a 380. Easily concealed and got more punch than the other "small caliber". I say that to say this...9mm will do the job!!

[dbly1850]

Originally Posted by XD45Chris

I'm just learning all of this so please be patient. It seems like everybody has picked a hollow point round. I understand wanting to make the wound channel as wide as possible, but doesn't that destroy your penetration? I've always been told that penetration is what you want. From hunting deer to stopping a brown bear to stopping a bad guy, the bullet needs to get through the important stuff and everything that was in front of it right? It seems to me like I'd want the heaviest bullet I can reliably shoot, in a solid configuration that wont open up and stop as soon as it hits something. If the bad guy's just wearing a T shirt the hollow points might be a great way to go, but how do you know what you're going to need to shoot through? What if you have to shoot through some glass or drywall? (I know, know your target and what's beyond it...)

Also, I agree a shot to the brain is the only 100% guaranteed stopper, and if the guy's got your daughter as a hostage then by all means do it, but otherwise isn't that an execution/murder? I was told to shoot a good controlled pair to the chest and then IF there's a failure to stop squeeze off one good one to the eyes/nose. You're trying to STOP him, death is a possible by product but not the goal.

Again, I'm a newbie and am just trying to learn. This seems like a great forum.

Chris

No Flame here - I think you have some bad info on hollow points. Soild points can pass through the body and not cause instant or close to instant stopage. Hollow points cause more shock and truma And as far as head shots - as been said before - you do what ever it takes to stay alive. Of course you had better spent lots of hours on the range and practice, practice, practice, before attempting a head shot.

There is alot of good info on selecting the hollow points on this forum. myself I like low recoil hydashocks. allows faster follow up shots -(if needed)

[Snake_Eyes]

Winchester +P+ as my nightstand load

[malignant messiah]

Originally Posted by liaisons

Just FYI, I'm not trying to be a dick... but in my opinion, there's no "manstopper" round. Apparently the FBI did research on this "manstopper" myth in 1987... they concluded that it was in fact a myth, unless the brain is hit.

Believe what you want, but I don't think anything has changed since 1987!! On the talk of ammo, I like the Winchester Ranger Talon ammo... it looks like it'd tear some stuff up.

I have the 19 page ebook if anyone wants me to e-mail it to them. Here's some good info from their research:

Physiologically, no caliber or bullet is certain to incapacitate any individual unless the brain is hit. Psychologically, some individuals can be incapacitated by minor or small caliber wounds. Those individuals who are stimulated by fear, adrenaline, drugs, alcohol, and/or sheer will and survival determination may not be incapacitated even if mortally wounded.

Barring a hit to the brain, the only way to force incapacitation is to cause sufficient blood loss that the subject can no longer function, and that takes time. Even if the heart is instantly destroyed, there is sufficient oxygen in the brain to support full and complete voluntary action for 10-15 seconds.

Kintetic energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed “shock” of bullet impact is a fable and “knock down” power is a myth. The critical element is penetration. The bullet must pass through the large, blood bearing organs and be of sufficient diameter to promote rapid bleeding. Penetration less than 12 inches is too little, and, in the words of two of the participants in the 1987 Wound Ballistics Workshop, “too little penetration will get you killed.”

Does anyone know where to find this e-book or what it is called? I need it kind of quick for some research I'm doing and can't get a hold of the original poster

[Jesse James]

I must go with Extreme SHock Ammo, look it up